Review: Samson Airline Bass Wireless

[azincognito]

The Samson Airline Bass is an interesting device. It's about $300, so
not cheap. There is a small tramsmitter that plugs directly into your
bass so no body-pack. The receiver is not a rackmount unit; it's a
small box. The system is very easy to use but ...

Here it is in a nutshell:

The Airline Bass technical specification says that the system supports
down to 50 hz. The E string on a bass is 41 hz if I'm not mistaken.
The low B string is somewhere around 30 hz. I do not know what the
"curve" is at 41 hz or 30 hz; that is, I do not know exactly how well
the system is supposed to support the E and B since they are
technically lower than 50 hz. Clearly, when you pluck an E or B with
the system, you do get some signal passed through so it's not as though
you suddenly get zero signal.

With that said, I notice some distortion on the B string and even the E
string. It is intermittent; sometimes there, sometimes not. The
distortion is not as noticeable if I'm playing through my Boss GT-6B
effects processor, but noticeable if playing straight through the
pre-amp.

I would say that the system is quite nice for the 4 string bass player,
but may not satisfy the 5 string player (low B). I want to play with
the system more and test a few more things, but I probably would pass
on this system except for practice purposes since I am exclusively a 5
string player.

I'm a bit disappointed that Samson would advertise this as a Bass
wireless system if it doesn't support down to the low B frequency
level. I'd love to see a truly useful wireless system for the 5 string
player.

Dan
Chandler, Arizona

[JMiller]

Post by azincognito
The Samson Airline Bass is an interesting device. It's about $300, so
not cheap. There is a small tramsmitter that plugs directly into your
bass so no body-pack. The receiver is not a rackmount unit; it's a
small box. The system is very easy to use but ...
The Airline Bass technical specification says that the system supports
down to 50 hz. The E string on a bass is 41 hz if I'm not mistaken.
The low B string is somewhere around 30 hz. I do not know what the
"curve" is at 41 hz or 30 hz; that is, I do not know exactly how well
the system is supposed to support the E and B since they are
technically lower than 50 hz. Clearly, when you pluck an E or B with
the system, you do get some signal passed through so it's not as though
you suddenly get zero signal.
With that said, I notice some distortion on the B string and even the E
string. It is intermittent; sometimes there, sometimes not. The
distortion is not as noticeable if I'm playing through my Boss GT-6B
effects processor, but noticeable if playing straight through the
pre-amp.
I would say that the system is quite nice for the 4 string bass player,
but may not satisfy the 5 string player (low B). I want to play with
the system more and test a few more things, but I probably would pass
on this system except for practice purposes since I am exclusively a 5
string player.
I'm a bit disappointed that Samson would advertise this as a Bass
wireless system if it doesn't support down to the low B frequency
level. I'd love to see a truly useful wireless system for the 5 string
player.

Bah, this low freq thing with wirelesses is meaningless. I can't
explain it in techie terms, but I've owned plenty of Samson wirelesses
that are only rated at 50 hz on the low end and the E and B sound just
like a cord. The fact that your distortion is intermittent tells me
it's not because of the wireless.
--
The Big Ass Broadcast
www.bigassbroadcast.com
The greatest internet radio show in the world.

[Jim Carr]

Post by JMiller
Bah, this low freq thing with wirelesses is meaningless. I can't
explain it in techie terms, but I've owned plenty of Samson wirelesses
that are only rated at 50 hz on the low end and the E and B sound just
like a cord. The fact that your distortion is intermittent tells me
it's not because of the wireless.

Agreed. I wrote a review of the Airline AP1B at
http://www.azwebpages.com/bass/samson_wireless.htm. There are sound clips
there so you can hear for yourself that it's just fine and pretty much the
same as a cord. I just went back and inspected it with a frequency analyzer
and didn't see any problems that my ears did not detect.

The only issue with it (and probably all UHF transmitters) is a wee bit of
noise/hiss. There seems to be a gate (or something), so you don't actually
hear it unless you're playing. I have audio samples that demonstrate even
with just drums the hiss is completely buried. You can also EQ it out if it
bothers you that much. I wouldn't use a wireless to record, but having used
it on numerous live gigs, I can honestly say that I have never once noticed
any problems. I really enjoy having the freedom - it makes it much easier to
get spanked by a tambourine.

[azincognito]

Wait a minute (by the way, hello Jim; this is Dan in Arizona; we've
been chatting about the GT-6B recently; i absolutely love it):

I'm glad that you both have good things to say about the system, but I
still need a solution. You can't just ignore the fact that the tech
spec shows a 50 hz support when E and B are lower. Frankly, I'd like
to know exactly what the degradation is below 50 hz and Samson was
unable to tell me that when I called them on Friday.

The fact is that I'm getting a noise on the E and B that is not
explained. Not sure how to describe the sound, but it almost sounds
like a "synth" sound. It is not noise/hiss. Have you heard this? And
on the intermittent nature of the problem, I will get this noise
depending on how I strike my strings. If I strike lightly, I get a
normal tone. If I begin to play normally (which should mean any way I
want to ... lightly to aggressively), I hear the variation.

I will read your review link, Jim, and hope to find something that
triggers a solution.

danH

Post by Jim Carr

Post by JMiller
Bah, this low freq thing with wirelesses is meaningless. I can't
explain it in techie terms, but I've owned plenty of Samson wirelesses
that are only rated at 50 hz on the low end and the E and B sound just
like a cord. The fact that your distortion is intermittent tells me
it's not because of the wireless.

Agreed. I wrote a review of the Airline AP1B at
http://www.azwebpages.com/bass/samson_wireless.htm. There are sound clips
there so you can hear for yourself that it's just fine and pretty much the
same as a cord. I just went back and inspected it with a frequency analyzer
and didn't see any problems that my ears did not detect.
The only issue with it (and probably all UHF transmitters) is a wee bit of
noise/hiss. There seems to be a gate (or something), so you don't actually
hear it unless you're playing. I have audio samples that demonstrate even
with just drums the hiss is completely buried. You can also EQ it out if it
bothers you that much. I wouldn't use a wireless to record, but having used
it on numerous live gigs, I can honestly say that I have never once noticed
any problems. I really enjoy having the freedom - it makes it much easier to
get spanked by a tambourine.

[ptooner]

Post by azincognito
Wait a minute (by the way, hello Jim; this is Dan in Arizona; we've
I'm glad that you both have good things to say about the system, but I
still need a solution. You can't just ignore the fact that the tech
spec shows a 50 hz support when E and B are lower. Frankly, I'd like
to know exactly what the degradation is below 50 hz and Samson was
unable to tell me that when I called them on Friday.

Sure you can ignore it. If it doesn't tell you how much it rolls off it's
useless info anyway. If it's a couple of db, then make it up with the eq.
I use a Sampson, but I don't remember what the model is. I bought it just
for rehearsals so I could walk around and do sound checks. I liked it so
much it came part of my regular setup. I've gone to playing strictly 4
string lately, but when I was playing 5 string it worked equally well. I
lost a lot less on B than my cabinet did (Ampeg or GK) and a whole lot less
than the mains. (Mackie) Anyway, numbers are pretty useless in choosing
sound equipment. Listen and buy what you like to hear.

Gerry

Post by azincognito
The fact is that I'm getting a noise on the E and B that is not
explained. Not sure how to describe the sound, but it almost sounds
like a "synth" sound. It is not noise/hiss. Have you heard this? And
on the intermittent nature of the problem, I will get this noise
depending on how I strike my strings. If I strike lightly, I get a
normal tone. If I begin to play normally (which should mean any way I
want to ... lightly to aggressively), I hear the variation.
I will read your review link, Jim, and hope to find something that
triggers a solution.
danH

Post by Jim Carr

Post by JMiller
Bah, this low freq thing with wirelesses is meaningless. I can't
explain it in techie terms, but I've owned plenty of Samson wirelesses
that are only rated at 50 hz on the low end and the E and B sound just
like a cord. The fact that your distortion is intermittent tells me
it's not because of the wireless.

Agreed. I wrote a review of the Airline AP1B at
http://www.azwebpages.com/bass/samson_wireless.htm. There are sound clips
there so you can hear for yourself that it's just fine and pretty much the
same as a cord. I just went back and inspected it with a frequency analyzer
and didn't see any problems that my ears did not detect.
The only issue with it (and probably all UHF transmitters) is a wee bit of
noise/hiss. There seems to be a gate (or something), so you don't actually
hear it unless you're playing. I have audio samples that demonstrate even
with just drums the hiss is completely buried. You can also EQ it out if it
bothers you that much. I wouldn't use a wireless to record, but having used
it on numerous live gigs, I can honestly say that I have never once noticed
any problems. I really enjoy having the freedom - it makes it much easier to
get spanked by a tambourine.

[JMiller]

Post by ptooner

Post by azincognito
Wait a minute (by the way, hello Jim; this is Dan in Arizona; we've
I'm glad that you both have good things to say about the system, but I
still need a solution. You can't just ignore the fact that the tech
spec shows a 50 hz support when E and B are lower. Frankly, I'd like
to know exactly what the degradation is below 50 hz and Samson was
unable to tell me that when I called them on Friday.

Sure you can ignore it. If it doesn't tell you how much it rolls off it's
useless info anyway. If it's a couple of db, then make it up with the eq.
I use a Sampson, but I don't remember what the model is. I bought it just
for rehearsals so I could walk around and do sound checks. I liked it so
much it came part of my regular setup. I've gone to playing strictly 4
string lately, but when I was playing 5 string it worked equally well. I
lost a lot less on B than my cabinet did (Ampeg or GK) and a whole lot less
than the mains. (Mackie) Anyway, numbers are pretty useless in choosing
sound equipment. Listen and buy what you like to hear.

Victor Wooten and Dave LaRue used to use a Samson Stage 22 wireless in
the early 90's. It was their cheapest true diversity wireless system
at the time. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for
anyone.
--
The Big Ass Broadcast
www.bigassbroadcast.com
The greatest internet radio show in the world.

[azincognito]

You know, Jim, I just read your review and I find it very interesting.
First, I noticed that you did engage the 15db switch on the
transmitter. When I did this, I immediately turned it back. The tone
nearly disappeared when I tried this switch (with the bass set to
active or passive). Can't say that EQ wouldn't resolve this, but seems
to me to be a significant work-around so would not immediately think to
go that route. By the way, I'm playing with a Fender Jazz Marcus
Miller 5 string active bass.

This may come down to a number of factors, not the least of which
include:

1. The bass you are using and the Samson's ability to "deal with" it's
output.
2. The player's propensity/tolerance for "noise".

I will play with the device for a couple of weeks and try a few
different things and then decide what I want to do with it. The
freedom is obviously a major attraction here; I just love it. But I'm
a tone-freak. I want perfect tone. It's hard enough to keep moving
toward that vision without dealing with the impact of a wireless on it.
I agree that there has to come a better solution (digital) in order
for the quality to be chord-like.

danH

Post by Jim Carr

Post by JMiller
Bah, this low freq thing with wirelesses is meaningless. I can't
explain it in techie terms, but I've owned plenty of Samson wirelesses
that are only rated at 50 hz on the low end and the E and B sound just
like a cord. The fact that your distortion is intermittent tells me
it's not because of the wireless.

Agreed. I wrote a review of the Airline AP1B at
http://www.azwebpages.com/bass/samson_wireless.htm. There are sound clips
there so you can hear for yourself that it's just fine and pretty much the
same as a cord. I just went back and inspected it with a frequency analyzer
and didn't see any problems that my ears did not detect.
The only issue with it (and probably all UHF transmitters) is a wee bit of
noise/hiss. There seems to be a gate (or something), so you don't actually
hear it unless you're playing. I have audio samples that demonstrate even
with just drums the hiss is completely buried. You can also EQ it out if it
bothers you that much. I wouldn't use a wireless to record, but having used
it on numerous live gigs, I can honestly say that I have never once noticed
any problems. I really enjoy having the freedom - it makes it much easier to
get spanked by a tambourine.

[Todd H]

Post by azincognito
I agree that there has to come a better solution (digital) in order
for the quality to be chord-like.

Digital isn't the holy grail. High quality analog can get you where
you want to go without the conversion latency.

To that end, if you want the most cord like wireless I've laid my ears
on, try the Sennheiser EW172 G2 system.

If you thought $300 was steep for the Airline, I'm not sure what
you'll think of the $450 EW172, but if tone is what you're looking to
preserve and 5-string happiness, I think you've got as good a chance
as finding happiness there. I'm sensitive to noise as well, and
you'll find the minimal noise fingerprint of the Senn very difficult
to detect in a quiet room in the house, and totally undetectable in
any performance situation.

[azincognito]

Thanks Todd. I put the Samson up on Craigslist this morning for $200.
If/when it sells, I'll definitely give the Sennheiser a look-see. I
tried finding their spec on the web and couldn't find it so far. If it
does what I want it to do, the extra money is not significant and the
need to wear the body-pack isn't a big deal either. Thanks for the
info. danH

Post by Todd H

Post by azincognito
I agree that there has to come a better solution (digital) in order
for the quality to be chord-like.

Digital isn't the holy grail. High quality analog can get you where
you want to go without the conversion latency.
To that end, if you want the most cord like wireless I've laid my ears
on, try the Sennheiser EW172 G2 system.
If you thought $300 was steep for the Airline, I'm not sure what
you'll think of the $450 EW172, but if tone is what you're looking to
preserve and 5-string happiness, I think you've got as good a chance
as finding happiness there. I'm sensitive to noise as well, and
you'll find the minimal noise fingerprint of the Senn very difficult
to detect in a quiet room in the house, and totally undetectable in
any performance situation.
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Todd H
\ / | http://www.toddh.net/
X Promoting good netiquette | http://triplethreatband.com/
/ \ http://www.toddh.net/netiquette/ | http://myspace.com/mytriplethreatband

[Todd H.]

Post by azincognito
Thanks Todd. I put the Samson up on Craigslist this morning for $200.
If/when it sells, I'll definitely give the Sennheiser a look-see. I
tried finding their spec on the web and couldn't find it so far. If it
does what I want it to do, the extra money is not significant and the
need to wear the body-pack isn't a big deal either. Thanks for the
info. danH

As I recall, the specs of a lot of units were about the same and
generally not to trusted.

Regardless of whatever it's LF number is, I can say that it handles
the 5 with flying colors. It may be 40 or 50Hz on the spec sheet as
I recall (I was initially concerned based on the spec sheet), but
actual experience proves out that it's no problem at all.

Best Regards,

[h***@webtv.net]

I tried one or actually two of these. I thought it would pay for itself
with the cheaper batteries compared to the 9v my rack system uses.
I bought the first one at G.C. and brought it home, hooked it up and
everything sounded great, for about ten minutes then it dies. Change the
battery..nothing, check the power to the receiver, powers fine the
thing's just dead. When I unpacked the thing the packing looked
disturbed, like someone had opened it and repacked it so I figured maybe
this was a return that got put back up for sale after someone dicked it
up. Take it back to G.C. and swap it for another one, get home and hook
it up and I get the distortion on the low strings like you're talking
about. The first one, in the ten minutes or so it did work, displayed
none of this distortion. Fiddle with the adjustments but no use it's
still there. Returned it to G.C. for a refund.

[Todd H.]

Post by h***@webtv.net
I tried one or actually two of these. I thought it would pay for itself
with the cheaper batteries compared to the 9v my rack system uses.
I bought the first one at G.C. and brought it home, hooked it up and
everything sounded great, for about ten minutes then it dies. Change the
battery..nothing, check the power to the receiver, powers fine the
thing's just dead. When I unpacked the thing the packing looked
disturbed, like someone had opened it and repacked it so I figured maybe
this was a return that got put back up for sale after someone dicked it
up. Take it back to G.C. and swap it for another one, get home and hook
it up and I get the distortion on the low strings like you're talking
about. The first one, in the ten minutes or so it did work, displayed
none of this distortion. Fiddle with the adjustments but no use it's
still there. Returned it to G.C. for a refund.

Handgunner, curious which system are you talking about? The post you
followed up to talked of the Sennheiser EW172 G2, but the OP is re:
Samson Airline.

[h***@webtv.net]

Handgunner, curious which system are you talking about? The post you
followed up to talked of the Sennheiser EW172 G2, but the OP is re:
Samson Airline.

It was the Samson Airline.

[gerry gironda]

OK digital is not the holy grail but it is the way to get 31 hz out of
wireless. Plus there is virtually no conversion latency in wireless units.
Latency appears in a/d and d/a conversions of many channels or bitstreams at
once ( 24 channel digital interface or 15 top end heavy digital efx) High
end Shure and Sennheisers go pretty low but digital is the only stuff the
goes down to low B with NO loss. I do concert sound and I've been playing
bass for many years. With a GOOD ear and a GOOD sound system you will hear
Samson airline and also AKG guitarbug right away, nowhere close to the sound
of a wire. AKG,Lectrosonics, Shure, Sennheiser all make good reliable
respectable wireless solutions. Cheap wireless sounds like cheap wireless,
this X2 is pretty cheap but the published specs are impressive. If you think
your Behringer combo amp sounds great you'll probably love the Samson. If
you won't be seen on a stage with (never mind) I would not recommend the new
Sennheiser Airport's either though...

Gerry G.

If/when it sells, I'll definitely give the Sennheiser a look-see. I
tried finding their spec on the web and couldn't find it so far. If it
does what I want it to do, the extra money is not significant and the
need to wear the body-pack isn't a big deal either. Thanks for the
info. danH

Digital isn't the holy grail. High quality analog can get you where
you want to go without the conversion latency.

Thanks Todd. I put the Samson up on Craigslist this morning for $200.
If/when it sells, I'll definitely give the Sennheiser a look-see. I
tried finding their spec on the web and couldn't find it so far. If it
does what I want it to do, the extra money is not significant and the
need to wear the body-pack isn't a big deal either. Thanks for the
info. danH

Post by azincognito
I agree that there has to come a better solution (digital) in order
for the quality to be chord-like.

Digital isn't the holy grail. High quality analog can get you where
you want to go without the conversion latency.

[Jim Carr]

Post by azincognito
You know, Jim, I just read your review and I find it very interesting.
First, I noticed that you did engage the 15db switch on the
transmitter. When I did this, I immediately turned it back. The tone
nearly disappeared when I tried this switch (with the bass set to
active or passive).

Hey, Dan,

I've used it with active and passive basses flipping the switch accordingly.
It works fine. If you're getting some farty noises, you might have a
defective unit.

[gerry gironda]

X 2 wireless.... I think it's the X wire patent since Sennheiser dropped
their Digital 1090.
Gerry G.

Post by azincognito
The Samson Airline Bass is an interesting device. It's about $300, so
not cheap. There is a small tramsmitter that plugs directly into your
bass so no body-pack. The receiver is not a rackmount unit; it's a
small box. The system is very easy to use but ...
The Airline Bass technical specification says that the system supports
down to 50 hz. The E string on a bass is 41 hz if I'm not mistaken.
The low B string is somewhere around 30 hz. I do not know what the
"curve" is at 41 hz or 30 hz; that is, I do not know exactly how well
the system is supposed to support the E and B since they are
technically lower than 50 hz. Clearly, when you pluck an E or B with
the system, you do get some signal passed through so it's not as though
you suddenly get zero signal.
With that said, I notice some distortion on the B string and even the E
string. It is intermittent; sometimes there, sometimes not. The
distortion is not as noticeable if I'm playing through my Boss GT-6B
effects processor, but noticeable if playing straight through the
pre-amp.
I would say that the system is quite nice for the 4 string bass player,
but may not satisfy the 5 string player (low B). I want to play with
the system more and test a few more things, but I probably would pass
on this system except for practice purposes since I am exclusively a 5
string player.
I'm a bit disappointed that Samson would advertise this as a Bass
wireless system if it doesn't support down to the low B frequency
level. I'd love to see a truly useful wireless system for the 5 string
player.
Dan
Chandler, Arizona

[AJ Brown]

I didn't like the unit at all, it drained all my tone and punch. I think I'll
check out the new X24 stuff.

[KDG]

For the record, I've been using a Samson wireless for the last 4 years
and have had great success with it. I paly a 5 string active bass
(Peavey Cirrus) and the B comes through low and loud.

The Airline has worked great for me.

KDG


On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 07:28:50 -0500, AJ Brown

Post by AJ Brown
I didn't like the unit at all, it drained all my tone and punch. I think I'll
check out the new X24 stuff.