Boiling flatwounds?

[Danko]

Hi all,

Did anyone try boiling URB strings?

I was thinking that maybe I could get my URB strings spring to life if I
boiled them (E-string is totally dead, and who knows how long those strings
have been used, and by whome). Not sure if it would work because I would
imagine roundwounds collect more dirt between the windings than
flatwounds...

I'd really like to avoid spending quarter of my salarie on new strings if I
could simply boil the old set.

Danko

[Sam Benson]

<Danko asked>

Post by Danko
I was thinking that maybe I could get my URB strings spring to life if I
boiled them (E-string is totally dead, and who knows how long those strings
have been used, and by whome). Not sure if it would work because I would
imagine roundwounds collect more dirt between the windings than
flatwounds...

Sure you can boil them, but do it with plain water. NEVER use chlorine or
chlorine products on your strings ( chlorine on stainless steel cause
chlorine corrosion stress cracking ). It breaks down the elasticity of SS
and won't allow tonal transfer ( I love big words ). In other words, if you
use a chlorine product on stainless, they'll get multitudes of minute cracks
and you'll have very dead strings, period. Nickel is a main ingredient of
stainless steel, it may have an affect, I don't know for sure.
What you can try without damage is a liquid car wax, say turtlewax 2000. I
use it when the strings are new, and every now and then loosen the strings
and give them a light cleaning. While the string is loose, look at the fret
area. If the string has little flats worn in at the fret junction, time for
new strings. The worn flats, IMO, don't allow good sound transfer...Of
cours, ymmv...

Sam

[Danko]

Post by Sam Benson
What you can try without damage is a liquid car wax, say turtlewax 2000. I
use it when the strings are new, and every now and then loosen the strings
and give them a light cleaning. While the string is loose, look at the fret
area. If the string has little flats worn in at the fret junction, time for

Sorry, Sam I didn't get this. What fret area on the upright bass?

Danko

[Rudraigh]

Post by Sam Benson
<Danko asked>

Post by Danko
I was thinking that maybe I could get my URB strings spring to life if I
boiled them (E-string is totally dead, and who knows how long those

strings

Post by Danko
have been used, and by whome). Not sure if it would work because I would
imagine roundwounds collect more dirt between the windings than
flatwounds...

Sure you can boil them, but do it with plain water. NEVER use chlorine or
chlorine products on your strings ( chlorine on stainless steel cause
chlorine corrosion stress cracking ). It breaks down the elasticity of SS
and won't allow tonal transfer ( I love big words ). In other words, if you
use a chlorine product on stainless, they'll get multitudes of minute cracks
and you'll have very dead strings, period. Nickel is a main ingredient of
stainless steel, it may have an affect, I don't know for sure.
What you can try without damage is a liquid car wax, say turtlewax 2000. I
use it when the strings are new, and every now and then loosen the strings
and give them a light cleaning. While the string is loose, look at the fret
area. If the string has little flats worn in at the fret junction, time for
new strings. The worn flats, IMO, don't allow good sound transfer...Of
cours, ymmv...
Sam

Umm ... if you don't mind ... a couple of clarifications:
1. Chlorine causes *pitting* of stainless steel when left in prolonged
contact. This pitting usually takes place right at the juncture of
liquid and air. The only thing that can cause "cracking" is stress.
2. Chlorine is driven out of solution very rapidly at high
temperatures. By the time a chlorine and water solution comes to
boil, most of the free chlorine is already gone.
3. Chromium is the main ingredient in SS that, in fact, makes it SS.
4. If one truly believes that it's the natural oils from their fingers
that are deadening their strings, better to treat them with a
degreaser. Boiling may actually detemper the strings (albeit to a
very small degree) and change their tone forever.
5. If you don't like the sound of your strings ... buy some new ones.
They're *not* that freakin' expensive!!!

Ok ... more than a couple of clarifications. Sorry.

[Boom]

Post by Rudraigh

Post by Sam Benson
area. If the string has little flats worn in at the fret junction, time for
new strings. The worn flats, IMO, don't allow good sound transfer...Of
cours, ymmv...

Bah...you're only supposed to change flats when they break. Been that
way since the days of Duck Dunn, Carol Kaye and James Jamerson.
They're not supposed to allow good sound transfer. The deadness is
what makes them sound good.

Post by Rudraigh
4. If one truly believes that it's the natural oils from their fingers
that are deadening their strings, better to treat them with a
degreaser. Boiling may actually detemper the strings (albeit to a
very small degree) and change their tone forever.

That's what I do. When I boil them, I use grease cutting dishwashing
liquid.

Post by Rudraigh
5. If you don't like the sound of your strings ... buy some new ones.
They're *not* that freakin' expensive!!!

If you buy a new set of strings a week, you can spend anywhere from
$18 to $35 a week. Assuming you cheap out and buy D'addarios (like I
do), that's $72 per month. I have a lot more to spend $72 a month on
than bass strings, so I boil them. Yes, boiling can detemper the
strings and alter their sound for the bad...but not always. But if it
happens, at that point I yank them off and put a new set on. If
you're going to change them anyway, it doesn't hurt to try boiling
them. If bass strings were as cheap as guitar strings, that would be
a different story.

[The Amazing Seismo]

Post by Boom

Post by Rudraigh

Post by Sam Benson
area. If the string has little flats worn in at the fret junction, time for
new strings. The worn flats, IMO, don't allow good sound transfer...Of
cours, ymmv...

Bah...you're only supposed to change flats when they break. Been that
way since the days of Duck Dunn, Carol Kaye and James Jamerson.
They're not supposed to allow good sound transfer. The deadness is
what makes them sound good.

Post by Rudraigh
4. If one truly believes that it's the natural oils from their fingers
that are deadening their strings, better to treat them with a
degreaser. Boiling may actually detemper the strings (albeit to a
very small degree) and change their tone forever.

That's what I do. When I boil them, I use grease cutting dishwashing
liquid.

Post by Rudraigh
5. If you don't like the sound of your strings ... buy some new ones.
They're *not* that freakin' expensive!!!

If you buy a new set of strings a week, you can spend anywhere from
$18 to $35 a week. Assuming you cheap out and buy D'addarios (like I
do), that's $72 per month. I have a lot more to spend $72 a month on
than bass strings, so I boil them. Yes, boiling can detemper the
strings and alter their sound for the bad...but not always. But if it
happens, at that point I yank them off and put a new set on. If
you're going to change them anyway, it doesn't hurt to try boiling
them. If bass strings were as cheap as guitar strings, that would be
a different story.

So why boil them? Why not heat the water to well under 200 degrees
Fahrenheit and then use the dish washing liquid that was suggested?

Flatwound strings that sound thunky have no place on my basses. I used to
change most of them a little after a month's use when I was playing full
time. That was until I discovered those humongous Labellas that I have
mentioned before. They never acquired the "thunky" sound that Fender and
Gibson flatwounds acquired shortly after being fitted. I used them for a
couple of years before selling the bass (big mistake). The large diameter
Rotosound flatwounds were almost as good. Wimpy necks would not hold up to
either set of these large flatwounds.

I've been looking for another set of the same type, but have not had any
luck in locating them this time around. Besides, I'm not sure that I could
develop that much necessary hand strength again. It was a bitch back when I
was thirty. At fifty eight, I'd probably be better off sticking with the
lighter gauges.

TAS

[Boom]

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 03:07:48 -0500, "The Amazing Seismo"

Post by The Amazing Seismo

Post by Boom
If you buy a new set of strings a week, you can spend anywhere from
$18 to $35 a week. Assuming you cheap out and buy D'addarios (like I
do), that's $72 per month. I have a lot more to spend $72 a month on
than bass strings, so I boil them. Yes, boiling can detemper the
strings and alter their sound for the bad...but not always. But if it
happens, at that point I yank them off and put a new set on. If
you're going to change them anyway, it doesn't hurt to try boiling
them. If bass strings were as cheap as guitar strings, that would be
a different story.

So why boil them? Why not heat the water to well under 200 degrees
Fahrenheit and then use the dish washing liquid that was suggested?

Because it rarely happens. BTW, the dish washing liquid suggestion
was mine.

Post by The Amazing Seismo
Flatwound strings that sound thunky have no place on my basses. I used to
change most of them a little after a month's use when I was playing full
time. That was until I discovered those humongous Labellas that I have
mentioned before. They never acquired the "thunky" sound that Fender and
Gibson flatwounds acquired shortly after being fitted. I used them for a
couple of years before selling the bass (big mistake). The large diameter
Rotosound flatwounds were almost as good. Wimpy necks would not hold up to
either set of these large flatwounds.

Describe the term "thunky." Do you mean the sound they get when
they're super dead?

Post by The Amazing Seismo
I've been looking for another set of the same type, but have not had any
luck in locating them this time around.

You can still get them. Isn't the LaBella Jamerson set really thick
like that?

Post by The Amazing Seismo
Besides, I'm not sure that I could
develop that much necessary hand strength again. It was a bitch back when I
was thirty. At fifty eight, I'd probably be better off sticking with the
lighter gauges.

In all honesty, I don't think I've ever noticed that it's harder to
push down thicker strings than it is thinner strings. I think the
string height is much more of a factor than string thickness.

[The Amazing Seismo]

Post by Boom
On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 03:07:48 -0500, "The Amazing Seismo"

Post by The Amazing Seismo

Post by Boom
If you buy a new set of strings a week, you can spend anywhere from
$18 to $35 a week. Assuming you cheap out and buy D'addarios (like I
do), that's $72 per month. I have a lot more to spend $72 a month on
than bass strings, so I boil them. Yes, boiling can detemper the
strings and alter their sound for the bad...but not always. But if it
happens, at that point I yank them off and put a new set on. If
you're going to change them anyway, it doesn't hurt to try boiling
them. If bass strings were as cheap as guitar strings, that would be
a different story.

So why boil them? Why not heat the water to well under 200 degrees
Fahrenheit and then use the dish washing liquid that was suggested?

Because it rarely happens. BTW, the dish washing liquid suggestion
was mine.

Post by The Amazing Seismo
Flatwound strings that sound thunky have no place on my basses. I used to
change most of them a little after a month's use when I was playing full
time. That was until I discovered those humongous Labellas that I have
mentioned before. They never acquired the "thunky" sound that Fender and
Gibson flatwounds acquired shortly after being fitted. I used them for a
couple of years before selling the bass (big mistake). The large diameter
Rotosound flatwounds were almost as good. Wimpy necks would not hold up to
either set of these large flatwounds.

Describe the term "thunky." Do you mean the sound they get when
they're super dead?

First, I'm not really argueing with you.

Second, if one listens to Motown bass playing, none that I have heard played
using strings that were totally dead. Jamerson and Duck Dunn were pulling
yer legs. They had plenty of sustain when they wanted it.

Post by Boom

Post by The Amazing Seismo
I've been looking for another set of the same type, but have not had any
luck in locating them this time around.

You can still get them. Isn't the LaBella Jamerson set really thick
like that?

I don't know. Obviously I'm not expert on the topic. We're just talking
amongst friends. Don't mind the 'tude. I'm just trying to say that I'm sure
of how it was then. I am not sure of how it is today.

Post by Boom

Post by The Amazing Seismo
Besides, I'm not sure that I could
develop that much necessary hand strength again. It was a bitch back when I
was thirty. At fifty eight, I'd probably be better off sticking with the
lighter gauges.

In all honesty, I don't think I've ever noticed that it's harder to
push down thicker strings than it is thinner strings. I think the
string height is much more of a factor than string thickness.

You are correct, sir. But to get the thick strings to voice properly, the
secret was to have them at a certain height. Then their sound changed
completely. Frankly, I discovered it because my neck bowed under the strain,
providing me with the height/sound that I am talking about. Once I
readjusted the trussrod to get the neck back in proper shape, I had to raise
the bridge pieces in order to get the sound back. Yes, I was jockeying the
pickups too.

With my bass adjusted this way with these strings, the compliments never
ended. The sound was pure and I had more sustain than I needed for the style
of music I was playing at the time. A few other bassists tried my bass as it
was and admitted that it sounded great, but they couldn't handle the need to
mute with both hands. I adapted and in a few months was very comfortable
with it.

A stock Jazz Bass neck would never have endured. Thankfully, I had swapped
out the Jazz Neck for an all maple Precision neck when I bought the bass new
in 75.

TAS

[Lowtonejoe]

Post by Rudraigh
1. Chlorine causes *pitting* of stainless steel when left in prolonged
contact. This pitting usually takes place right at the juncture of
liquid and air. The only thing that can cause "cracking" is stress.

Whatever. You're being too technical here. Damage is damage.

Post by Rudraigh
2. Chlorine is driven out of solution very rapidly at high
temperatures. By the time a chlorine and water solution comes to
boil, most of the free chlorine is already gone.

Then you do it.

Post by Rudraigh
3. Chromium is the main ingredient in SS that, in fact, makes it SS.

Uh.... http://www.hghouston.com/ss_comp.html

Post by Rudraigh
4. If one truly believes that it's the natural oils from their fingers
that are deadening their strings, better to treat them with a
degreaser. Boiling may actually detemper the strings (albeit to a
very small degree) and change their tone forever.

You are nuts.

Post by Rudraigh
5. If you don't like the sound of your strings ... buy some new ones.
They're *not* that freakin' expensive!!!

Are you a string salesman? A student?

Post by Rudraigh
Ok ... more than a couple of clarifications. Sorry.

Keep trying.

:-)

Joe.

[Derek Tearne]

Post by Rudraigh
3. Chromium is the main ingredient in SS that, in fact, makes it SS.

Er, actually I think some stuff called 'iron' is the main ingredient in
stainless steel. There's also this stuff called 'carbon', which is
important in making it steel and not 'iron' and 'chromium' is one of the
elements that makes 'stainless steel' all shiny. Fairly important I'll
grant you, but still.

This is usenet.

Post by Rudraigh
4. If one truly believes that it's the natural oils from their fingers
that are deadening their strings, better to treat them with a
degreaser. Boiling may actually detemper the strings (albeit to a
very small degree) and change their tone forever.

I remain unconvinced that 100 degrees C will 'detemper' steel to any
great extent. It it did I feel sure I'd have noticed this effect on my
stainless steel pots and pans, all of which have been boiled for much,
much, longer than the strings that occasionally get boiled in them, not
to mention knives.

Post by Rudraigh
5. If you don't like the sound of your strings ... buy some new ones.
They're *not* that freakin' expensive!!!

It's always a good idea to go back to the beginning ot the thread and
find out what is being discussed. If the beginning of the thread is no
longer available it's often a good idea to say nothing.

In this case the strings being discussed are upright bass strings and
*are* freakin' expensive.

--- Derek

[Lynrd]

Post by Derek Tearne

Post by Rudraigh
3. Chromium is the main ingredient in SS that, in fact, makes it SS.

Er, actually I think some stuff called 'iron' is the main ingredient in
stainless steel. There's also this stuff called 'carbon', which is
important in making it steel and not 'iron' and 'chromium' is one of the
elements that makes 'stainless steel' all shiny. Fairly important I'll
grant you, but still.
This is usenet.

Post by Rudraigh
4. If one truly believes that it's the natural oils from their fingers
that are deadening their strings, better to treat them with a
degreaser. Boiling may actually detemper the strings (albeit to a
very small degree) and change their tone forever.

I remain unconvinced that 100 degrees C will 'detemper' steel to any
great extent. It it did I feel sure I'd have noticed this effect on my
stainless steel pots and pans, all of which have been boiled for much,
much, longer than the strings that occasionally get boiled in them, not
to mention knives.

Post by Rudraigh
5. If you don't like the sound of your strings ... buy some new ones.
They're *not* that freakin' expensive!!!

It's always a good idea to go back to the beginning ot the thread and
find out what is being discussed. If the beginning of the thread is no
longer available it's often a good idea to say nothing.
In this case the strings being discussed are upright bass strings and
*are* freakin' expensive.
--- Derek

What about microwaving them? Would that be better than boiling?

[Derek Tearne]

Post by Lynrd
What about microwaving them? Would that be better than boiling?

It will be much more *spectacular* than boiling.

Better? I think not.

I truly hope that no read this and thought "Oh, that's a good idea, I'll
try it!".

--- Derek

[Middle C]

Post by Lynrd

Post by Derek Tearne

Post by Rudraigh
5. If you don't like the sound of your strings ... buy some new ones.
They're *not* that freakin' expensive!!!

It's always a good idea to go back to the beginning ot the thread and
find out what is being discussed. If the beginning of the thread is no
longer available it's often a good idea to say nothing.
In this case the strings being discussed are upright bass strings and
*are* freakin' expensive.
--- Derek

What about microwaving them? Would that be better than boiling?

Just be sure and wrap them in plenty of tin foil first. When they quit
sparking go out and buy a new microwave and a set of strings.

[Clive]

Post by Danko
Hi all,
Did anyone try boiling URB strings?
I was thinking that maybe I could get my URB strings spring to life if I
boiled them (E-string is totally dead, and who knows how long those strings
have been used, and by whome). Not sure if it would work because I would
imagine roundwounds collect more dirt between the windings than
flatwounds...
I'd really like to avoid spending quarter of my salarie on new strings if I
could simply boil the old set.
Danko

Depends...I would imagine...whether
your strings have a steel or nylon or similar
core. If nylon/similar boiling would probably
finish them for good.
Try cleaning them with a good fretboard cleaner
containing lemon or orange oil which will get the crud,
rosin etc out of the windings.
Taking the tension off and letting them relax for a few
days can also restore some tone in my experience.
(beware of the sound post falling out!)
Good URB strings are very expensive but will last
for 2-3 or more years if you keep them clean and
well-worth the investment.

--
Clive Norris
Selectron (UK) Ltd
Musical Equipment Distribution
www.espguitars.co.uk
www.espshop.co.uk
www.emgpickups.co.uk
www.emginc.com
www.whirlwindusa.com
www.deanmarkley.com
www.mightymite.com
www.tube-shop.com
"The more corrupt the State,
the more numerous the laws".
Tacitus

[Danko]

Post by Clive
Taking the tension off and letting them relax for a few
days can also restore some tone in my experience.
(beware of the sound post falling out!)
Good URB strings are very expensive but will last
for 2-3 or more years if you keep them clean and
well-worth the investment.

Thanks for your reply. Good to know boiling is a no-no (what if there is
nylon inside the string? - don't know and don't wanna know).

But about the new strings, I am sure I'll have to buy some. But for one I'm
just a beginner and I don't deserve new strings yet. I may treat myself with
new strings when my intonation improves. Plus I don't know what kind of
strings to buy. My teacher says orchestral, but then again, he said higher
tension is better. Now - I don't like it when my fingers hurt - no fun, no
playing. So either my fingers will become stronger or I'll buy softer
strings despite of what my teacher says. I'm still not sure which strings,
and since they are so expensive I don't want to choose wrong strings and
regret the decision in the following few years.

Heck, I could buy a cheap electric bass (with strings) for the price of new
DB strings!

Danko

[Clive]

Choice of DB strings can be difficult for a newbie
as a wrong choice is very expensive.
My choice of strings are not good for arco and are
low tension...Thomastik Weich...because I want
a bright fast string for jazz. Not really suitable for
orchestral or rockabilly!
New strings will help you with intonation as you'll
get a much more clearly defined note rather than
a thud or 'ponk' which is typical of dead strings.
There are cheap(er) student sets around but really
only good for arco or rockabilly as they don't have
the clean tone or sustain necessary for jazz as most
have a nylon core with an aluminum wrap rather
than a steel core with a nickel-silver wrap over nylon
or similar.
It all depends on what style of music you want to play.

--
Clive Norris
Selectron (UK) Ltd
Musical Equipment Distribution
www.espguitars.co.uk
www.espshop.co.uk
www.emgpickups.co.uk
www.emginc.com
www.whirlwindusa.com
www.deanmarkley.com
www.mightymite.com
www.tube-shop.com
"The more corrupt the State,
the more numerous the laws".
Tacitus

Post by Danko

Post by Clive
Taking the tension off and letting them relax for a few
days can also restore some tone in my experience.
(beware of the sound post falling out!)
Good URB strings are very expensive but will last
for 2-3 or more years if you keep them clean and
well-worth the investment.

Thanks for your reply. Good to know boiling is a no-no (what if there is
nylon inside the string? - don't know and don't wanna know).
But about the new strings, I am sure I'll have to buy some. But for one I'm
just a beginner and I don't deserve new strings yet. I may treat myself with
new strings when my intonation improves. Plus I don't know what kind of
strings to buy. My teacher says orchestral, but then again, he said higher
tension is better. Now - I don't like it when my fingers hurt - no fun, no
playing. So either my fingers will become stronger or I'll buy softer
strings despite of what my teacher says. I'm still not sure which strings,
and since they are so expensive I don't want to choose wrong strings and
regret the decision in the following few years.
Heck, I could buy a cheap electric bass (with strings) for the price of new
DB strings!
Danko

[Kirk]

Try a set of Pirastro Obligato's and I think you will be pleased. They are
soft and perform well both pizz and arco. I love mine. Thay are a bit dark
sounding (my preference) but bow easily which is a major plus if you are
starting out. I believe thay run from about $100 to $150 depending on where
you look.

Most strings will last at least a year if you practice/play more than 20hrs
per week. I have never had any round wound electric strings that still
sounded right after 1000 hours of use. Wipe your strings down after
practice and they will last as longer than you want.

Here is a good source for used strings.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=12

K

Post by Danko

Post by Clive
Taking the tension off and letting them relax for a few
days can also restore some tone in my experience.
(beware of the sound post falling out!)
Good URB strings are very expensive but will last
for 2-3 or more years if you keep them clean and
well-worth the investment.

Thanks for your reply. Good to know boiling is a no-no (what if there is
nylon inside the string? - don't know and don't wanna know).
But about the new strings, I am sure I'll have to buy some. But for one I'm
just a beginner and I don't deserve new strings yet. I may treat myself with
new strings when my intonation improves. Plus I don't know what kind of
strings to buy. My teacher says orchestral, but then again, he said higher
tension is better. Now - I don't like it when my fingers hurt - no fun, no
playing. So either my fingers will become stronger or I'll buy softer
strings despite of what my teacher says. I'm still not sure which strings,
and since they are so expensive I don't want to choose wrong strings and
regret the decision in the following few years.
Heck, I could buy a cheap electric bass (with strings) for the price of new
DB strings!
Danko

[Danko]

Thanks for the tip Kirk.

I'm not sure if I like "dark sounding" strings. I don't even know the
difference between dark and bright sounding URB strings.

Danko

Post by Kirk
Try a set of Pirastro Obligato's and I think you will be pleased. They are
soft and perform well both pizz and arco. I love mine. Thay are a bit dark
sounding (my preference) but bow easily which is a major plus if you are
starting out. I believe thay run from about $100 to $150 depending on where
you look.
Most strings will last at least a year if you practice/play more than 20hrs
per week. I have never had any round wound electric strings that still
sounded right after 1000 hours of use. Wipe your strings down after
practice and they will last as longer than you want.
Here is a good source for used strings.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=12
K

Post by Danko

Post by Clive
Taking the tension off and letting them relax for a few
days can also restore some tone in my experience.
(beware of the sound post falling out!)
Good URB strings are very expensive but will last
for 2-3 or more years if you keep them clean and
well-worth the investment.

Thanks for your reply. Good to know boiling is a no-no (what if there is
nylon inside the string? - don't know and don't wanna know).
But about the new strings, I am sure I'll have to buy some. But for one

I'm

Post by Danko
just a beginner and I don't deserve new strings yet. I may treat myself

with

Post by Danko
new strings when my intonation improves. Plus I don't know what kind of
strings to buy. My teacher says orchestral, but then again, he said higher
tension is better. Now - I don't like it when my fingers hurt - no fun, no
playing. So either my fingers will become stronger or I'll buy softer
strings despite of what my teacher says. I'm still not sure which strings,
and since they are so expensive I don't want to choose wrong strings and
regret the decision in the following few years.
Heck, I could buy a cheap electric bass (with strings) for the price of

new

Post by Danko
DB strings!
Danko

[Derek Tearne]

Post by Danko
Hi all,
Did anyone try boiling URB strings?

Oh, I'm sure someone did, depending on the strings it could have turned
out badly though.

If your strings have nylon, gut or synthetic gut cores then boiling them
would likely destroy the strings. I believe that some URB strings also
have a winding of silk between the core and the outer steel winding.
Even if the core is stainless steel, getting this layer wet could cause
problems as it will lead to corrosion inside the strings.

As you rightly note, flat wounds have less of a problem with grease in
the windings than flats, and what grease there is can be wiped off more
easily using something like isopropyl alcohol or strong vodka. This
will also help remove rosin residue more effectively than boiling. I
use vodka at 90% alcohol to clean my URB strings - in the US this is
available as 'everclear'. Isopropyl alcohol may work better but I
prefer the smell of vodka!

Post by Danko
I'd really like to avoid spending quarter of my salarie on new strings if I
could simply boil the old set.

If you have any way of finding out the brand and type of string on your
bass you can always replace just the problem string. Your teacher might
be able to help with this - some URB strings can be identified by their
silks. If not, sometime you'll need to bite the bullet and get a whole
set of strings, you might as well do it now.

It's worth looking on eBay or in forums like 'talkbass' for slightly
used strings. Unlike electric bass strings there is a market for used
URB strings. As you're aware upright bass strings cost a small fortune,
and if one buys a new set and don't like the sound it's worth trying to
sell them. So you'll reasonably often see 'used URB set for sale only
(usually < 10) hours use'.

--- Derek

[Danko]

Post by Derek Tearne
It's worth looking on eBay or in forums like 'talkbass' for slightly
used strings. Unlike electric bass strings there is a market for used
URB strings. As you're aware upright bass strings cost a small fortune,
and if one buys a new set and don't like the sound it's worth trying to
sell them. So you'll reasonably often see 'used URB set for sale only
(usually < 10) hours use'.

Thats very cool because I can't buy good strings where I live anyway. Thanks
Derek for all your imput!

Danko

[Dude]

Is it ok if I still think John's an asshole??

;-)

[John Shaughnessy]

Alright, no one has said this yet, so I'll be the asshole:

THEY'RE FLATWOUND STRINGS!

THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO SOUND DEAD!!

DO NOT BOIL THEM!!

If you want a general cleaning, use rubbing alcohol. If you don't like the
stings themselves, get a new set. But boiling them will not solve a thing.

Or as James Jamerson, electric and acoustic bassist extraordinaire, once
said: "Dirt keeps the funk."
--
Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm

"I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion
and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's."
- Mark Twain

Post by Danko
Hi all,
Did anyone try boiling URB strings?
I was thinking that maybe I could get my URB strings spring to life if I
boiled them (E-string is totally dead, and who knows how long those strings
have been used, and by whome). Not sure if it would work because I would
imagine roundwounds collect more dirt between the windings than
flatwounds...
I'd really like to avoid spending quarter of my salarie on new strings if I
could simply boil the old set.
Danko

[The Amazing Seismo]

Post by John Shaughnessy
THEY'RE FLATWOUND STRINGS!
THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO SOUND DEAD!!

I used to think that, so I switched to
roundwounds. Too boingy for me. I then ran
into a set of LaBella flatwounds that were
HUGE! Unfortunately, I do not remember the
gauges some thirty years later.

I strung them up on my Jazz Bass equipped
with a Precision Bass all maple baseball bat
neck and discovered a whole new world of
flatwound string sound.

Unlike those dead assed Fender and Gibson
light gauge flatwounds, the LaBellas had
massive fundamental tone and great sustain.
No "thunk" from these strings. They rang true
and sustained in all neck positions, once the
action was optimized and the bridge pieces
adjusted.

I then realized that this must be what the
pros were using all along. They must have
been intentionally hording this secret
amongst themselves. I discovered it by
accident and I read all of the bass
periodicals of the day. No one ever mentioned
the miraculous sound of these strings.

Not only that, but the muddiness and
indistinct tone that was normally associated
with flatwound strings simply wasn't there.
You could actually tell the pitch of a note.
Funny how this cleans up your playing style.

The downside? No, it was not longevity. I had
them on that bass a couple of years and there
was no serious degradation of the tone or
intonation.

They did require a change in playing style.
Because they were so massive and had such
great sustain, you really had to work your
ass off to mute the strings so that
everything did not run together. My old habit
of only muting with the palm of my plucking
hand was insufficient. I had to intentionally
mute with both hands and pay particular
attention to get that string up off of the
fretboard when the note was no longer needed.
It took a while, but I finally got the hang
of it. I loved the complements that I
received from their sound, but I have to
admit that I almost gave up on the strings
because of the extra handstrength that was
required to play them well. Somehow, I
managed to bring my hands up to strength in a
few months. I'll bet those strings are still
playing today.

Post by John Shaughnessy
DO NOT BOIL THEM!!

I like mine with a little dill and parsely.

Ed Cregger
The Amazing Seismo

[Dude]

Ed,

Thos larger LaBella's were probably their "Original 1954" "Jamerson Set", .052
- .110 Flatwounds.

These are different from their "Deep Talking Flats" in that they use a larger
diameter core wire.


Steve "Dude" Barr

http://www.TheDudePit.com
http://www.VintageBass.com
http://www.schoolofbass.com

[RB]

Post by Dude
Thos larger LaBella's were probably their "Original 1954" "Jamerson Set", .052
- .110 Flatwounds.

Yeah, those are them most likely. Them with lots of dirt on 'em.... on
a slab body P.... man what a thud!!

[The Amazing Seismo]

Post by RB

Post by Dude
Thos larger LaBella's were probably their "Original 1954" "Jamerson Set", .052
- .110 Flatwounds.

Yeah, those are them most likely. Them with lots of dirt on 'em.... on
a slab body P.... man what a thud!!

Nope, NO thud.

They rang true and sustained mightily.

This was the whole point of my post. They did
not thud like dead ass Fender and Gibson
flatwounds.

TAS

[RB]

Post by The Amazing Seismo
This was the whole point of my post. They did
not thud like dead ass Fender and Gibson
flatwounds.

That was my point -- that (after lots of dirt) they DID thud.

They were great strings, live and dead.

I've gotten used to Thomastiks, but the TI's don't work so well on the
Tele bass, so might go back to the Jamersons....

[The Amazing Seismo]

Post by RB

Post by The Amazing Seismo
This was the whole point of my post. They did
not thud like dead ass Fender and Gibson
flatwounds.

That was my point -- that (after lots of dirt) they DID thud.
They were great strings, live and dead.
I've gotten used to Thomastiks, but the TI's don't work so well on the
Tele bass, so might go back to the Jamersons....

Oh, sorry about that.

My big fat LaBellas never did go flat and I
used the heck out of them for a couple of
years before selling the bass. What an idiot
I can be.

I have a new set of TI's that I received from
Dude a couple of weeks ago.

Yesterday I opened the box to my latest SX
bass, an SJB-75c natural finish and was
pleased with the quality, sound, etc. The
neck is kind of thick for a Jazz Bass, but
not objectionably so. In fact, I think that
is where I am going to put the TI flats.

We shall see...

TAS

[Boom]

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 01:47:17 -0500, The Amazing Seismo

Post by The Amazing Seismo

Post by John Shaughnessy
THEY'RE FLATWOUND STRINGS!
THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO SOUND DEAD!!

I used to think that, so I switched to
roundwounds. Too boingy for me. I then ran
into a set of LaBella flatwounds that were
HUGE! Unfortunately, I do not remember the
gauges some thirty years later.
I strung them up on my Jazz Bass equipped
with a Precision Bass all maple baseball bat
neck and discovered a whole new world of
flatwound string sound.
Unlike those dead assed Fender and Gibson
light gauge flatwounds, the LaBellas had
massive fundamental tone and great sustain.
No "thunk" from these strings. They rang true
and sustained in all neck positions, once the
action was optimized and the bridge pieces
adjusted.
I then realized that this must be what the
pros were using all along. They must have
been intentionally hording this secret
amongst themselves. I discovered it by
accident and I read all of the bass
periodicals of the day. No one ever mentioned
the miraculous sound of these strings.
Not only that, but the muddiness and
indistinct tone that was normally associated
with flatwound strings simply wasn't there.
You could actually tell the pitch of a note.
Funny how this cleans up your playing style.
The downside? No, it was not longevity. I had
them on that bass a couple of years and there
was no serious degradation of the tone or
intonation.
They did require a change in playing style.
Because they were so massive and had such
great sustain, you really had to work your
ass off to mute the strings so that
everything did not run together. My old habit
of only muting with the palm of my plucking
hand was insufficient. I had to intentionally
mute with both hands and pay particular
attention to get that string up off of the
fretboard when the note was no longer needed.
It took a while, but I finally got the hang
of it. I loved the complements that I
received from their sound, but I have to
admit that I almost gave up on the strings
because of the extra handstrength that was
required to play them well. Somehow, I
managed to bring my hands up to strength in a
few months. I'll bet those strings are still
playing today.

I'll bet you had to walk 8 miles to school in the snow with worn-out
boots and a tattered wool coat.

Post by The Amazing Seismo

Post by John Shaughnessy
DO NOT BOIL THEM!!

I like mine with a little dill and parsely.

Ranch for me, thank you!

[Spyder Barques]

Post by Boom
I'll bet you had to walk 8 miles to school in the snow with worn-out
boots and a tattered wool coat.

School wasn't invented yet when TAS was a kid.
Neither were sheep.
Or snow.

Hi, Ed!

--
Thad
http://profiles.myspace.com/users/15799639

[The Amazing Seismo]

Post by Spyder Barques

Post by Boom
I'll bet you had to walk 8 miles to school in the snow with worn-out
boots and a tattered wool coat.

School wasn't invented yet when TAS was a kid.
Neither were sheep.
Or snow.
Hi, Ed!
--
Thad
http://profiles.myspace.com/users/15799639

My buddy! <G>

TAS

[Danko]

No, you are not an ashole, but you are stating the obvious (to me atleast).

Post by John Shaughnessy
THEY'RE FLATWOUND STRINGS!
THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO SOUND DEAD!!
DO NOT BOIL THEM!!

Ummm, you are right. But my teacher has his strings on for 10 years (atleast
that's what he said), and his strings have definition. The tone is clear and
articulate. My strings? Sometimes I'm not even sure if they are tuned right
or not. Yes, it's that bad. But as I said before. I don't want to buy
strings and in two weeks realize I wanted another brand or type.

I can see a research in my near future, possibly a jurney. :)

Danko

[John Shaughnessy]

If your strings are that far gone, boiling won't do much to help.

I'd suck it up and by a new set of strings.

Look at it this way: If you spend $100 for strings that last 10 years, that
works out to $10 a year for strings! I bet you spend at least 5x that per
year on electric strings. So in reality, upright strings are a bargain.
--
Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm

"I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion
and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's."
- Mark Twain

Post by Danko
No, you are not an ashole, but you are stating the obvious (to me atleast).

Post by John Shaughnessy
THEY'RE FLATWOUND STRINGS!
THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO SOUND DEAD!!
DO NOT BOIL THEM!!

Ummm, you are right. But my teacher has his strings on for 10 years (atleast
that's what he said), and his strings have definition. The tone is clear and
articulate. My strings? Sometimes I'm not even sure if they are tuned right
or not. Yes, it's that bad. But as I said before. I don't want to buy
strings and in two weeks realize I wanted another brand or type.
I can see a research in my near future, possibly a jurney. :)
Danko

[Danko]

Post by John Shaughnessy
Look at it this way: If you spend $100 for strings that last 10 years, that
works out to $10 a year for strings! I bet you spend at least 5x that per
year on electric strings. So in reality, upright strings are a bargain.

Thanks John. You reminded me of my wife, she can always see the brighter
side of a medal.

AND thanks all for the answers. I'll try the alcohol cleaning first, and buy
new strings as soon as I feel I need a treat. :)

Danko

[Derek Tearne]

Post by John Shaughnessy
Look at it this way: If you spend $100 for strings that last 10 years, that
works out to $10 a year for strings!

Except that it's more like $130 a set ($170 for a 5 string set) I'll be
glad if this set lasts ten years, I doubt it will though.

Post by John Shaughnessy
I bet you spend at least 5x that per
year on electric strings. So in reality, upright strings are a bargain.

One set of upright bass strings is equivalent to three years worth of
electric bass strings for two basses.

I wouldn't say they are a bargain, I'd say they are roughly equivalent
and tipping toward the pricey side.

That's assuming, of course, that one isn't using flats on the electric
bass.

I'm sure *some* people spend $500 + a year on electric bass strings,
I'll wager those people would replace their upright bass strings at
least once a year.

--- Derek

[Danko]

Heh, I change electric strings every 3 months (cooking few times too). So, I
guess my URB strings may serve me for atleast 5 years. :)

danko

Post by Derek Tearne

Post by John Shaughnessy
Look at it this way: If you spend $100 for strings that last 10 years, that
works out to $10 a year for strings!

Except that it's more like $130 a set ($170 for a 5 string set) I'll be
glad if this set lasts ten years, I doubt it will though.

Post by John Shaughnessy
I bet you spend at least 5x that per
year on electric strings. So in reality, upright strings are a bargain.

One set of upright bass strings is equivalent to three years worth of
electric bass strings for two basses.
I wouldn't say they are a bargain, I'd say they are roughly equivalent
and tipping toward the pricey side.
That's assuming, of course, that one isn't using flats on the electric
bass.
I'm sure *some* people spend $500 + a year on electric bass strings,
I'll wager those people would replace their upright bass strings at
least once a year.
--- Derek
--
Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.manyhands.co.nz/

[John Shaughnessy]

$100 or $130? Whatever; not a major price difference there. Nit pick all you
want, but my argument still stands.

(BTW: I know for a fact that D'addario Heliocores and Rotos, both excellent
strings, cost around $100. Thomastics ands Piastros cost around $130. And if
you want to spend the big bucks for an orchestral string, that's on you.)

You should get 5-10 years out of a set of URB strings, easily. Hell, it
takes them at least a year to settle in. The only time you should change
them is if they up and die on you like Danko's did, you break one, or you
want to try something different.

I've had the same set of Thomasiks on my Kay for the last 4 years. I sweat
like a mofo when I play, I play hard and I rarely wipe them down. Yet they
still sound like new. what more can I say?

...And if you're constantly changing flats on an electric, you should be
playing rounds anyway.
--
Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm

"I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion
and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's."
- Mark Twain

Post by Derek Tearne

Post by John Shaughnessy
Look at it this way: If you spend $100 for strings that last 10 years, that
works out to $10 a year for strings!

Except that it's more like $130 a set ($170 for a 5 string set) I'll be
glad if this set lasts ten years, I doubt it will though.

Post by John Shaughnessy
I bet you spend at least 5x that per
year on electric strings. So in reality, upright strings are a bargain.

One set of upright bass strings is equivalent to three years worth of
electric bass strings for two basses.
I wouldn't say they are a bargain, I'd say they are roughly equivalent
and tipping toward the pricey side.
That's assuming, of course, that one isn't using flats on the electric
bass.
I'm sure *some* people spend $500 + a year on electric bass strings,
I'll wager those people would replace their upright bass strings at
least once a year.
--- Derek
--
Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.manyhands.co.nz/

[The Amazing Seismo]

Post by John Shaughnessy
...And if you're constantly changing flats on an electric, you should be
playing rounds anyway.

Nope. I want that clear, crisp and clean NEW
flatwound sound.

I wouldn't have to change them many times
today though, John. BITGOD (Back In The Good
Old Days), I was really oily and acidic and
could ruin a set of strings in no time.
Today, the most damage I do is to leave a lot
of dry skin on things. Just an old prune.

TAS

[Danko]

John,

What Tomastik's do you use? And one more question - since I'm D'Addario fan
for many years, do you think I'd like their helicores as much as I like
their XL's on electric? ( use 40's and 45's - 4-string set ) If so, there I
have nothing to worry about, and just go D'Addario as on my other
instruments. :)

BTW: which ones: Bass helicore Pizzicato Light or Medium? Or should I buy
orcestral? Or hybrid? I don't play arco (still). ... comfused.

Danko

Post by John Shaughnessy
$100 or $130? Whatever; not a major price difference there. Nit pick all you
want, but my argument still stands.
(BTW: I know for a fact that D'addario Heliocores and Rotos, both excellent
strings, cost around $100. Thomastics ands Piastros cost around $130. And if
you want to spend the big bucks for an orchestral string, that's on you.)
You should get 5-10 years out of a set of URB strings, easily. Hell, it
takes them at least a year to settle in. The only time you should change
them is if they up and die on you like Danko's did, you break one, or you
want to try something different.
I've had the same set of Thomasiks on my Kay for the last 4 years. I sweat
like a mofo when I play, I play hard and I rarely wipe them down. Yet they
still sound like new. what more can I say?
...And if you're constantly changing flats on an electric, you should be
playing rounds anyway.
--
Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm
"I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion
and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's."
- Mark Twain

Post by Derek Tearne

Post by John Shaughnessy
Look at it this way: If you spend $100 for strings that last 10 years,

that

Post by Derek Tearne

Post by John Shaughnessy
works out to $10 a year for strings!

Except that it's more like $130 a set ($170 for a 5 string set) I'll be
glad if this set lasts ten years, I doubt it will though.

Post by John Shaughnessy
I bet you spend at least 5x that per
year on electric strings. So in reality, upright strings are a bargain.

One set of upright bass strings is equivalent to three years worth of
electric bass strings for two basses.
I wouldn't say they are a bargain, I'd say they are roughly equivalent
and tipping toward the pricey side.
That's assuming, of course, that one isn't using flats on the electric
bass.
I'm sure *some* people spend $500 + a year on electric bass strings,
I'll wager those people would replace their upright bass strings at
least once a year.
--- Derek
--
Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.manyhands.co.nz/

[CraigS]

Post by John Shaughnessy
THEY'RE FLATWOUND STRINGS!
THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO SOUND DEAD!!
DO NOT BOIL THEM!!

But if you do boil them, remove them from the instrument first.

[John Shaughnessy]

...or get a really big pot.
--
Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm

"I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion
and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's."
- Mark Twain

Post by CraigS

Post by John Shaughnessy
THEY'RE FLATWOUND STRINGS!
THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO SOUND DEAD!!
DO NOT BOIL THEM!!

But if you do boil them, remove them from the instrument first.

[Dude]

Post by John Shaughnessy
...or get a really big pot.

Someone say "pot"???

Dude lifts nose into the air and sniffs....Jerry?? Is that you??

[opaki zli gad Jelenko]

Post by Danko
Did anyone try boiling URB strings?

i put strings in pure alcohol for a minute. does the trick, you can see the
dirt comming of them.

[The Amazing Seismo]

Post by opaki zli gad Jelenko

Post by Danko
Did anyone try boiling URB strings?

i put strings in pure alcohol for a minute. does the trick, you can see the
dirt comming of them.

When I was younger, I produced lots of body
oil. I wear glasses and they would get
covered with oil.

Rather than chase the oil around with tissue
and cleaner, I learned to use effervescing
denture cleaning tablets and water to remove
the oil and grease. Submerse the intended
object to be cleaned in water, then drop in a
sufficient number of tablets. I'm sure the
same would work for strings as well.

TAS

[Brian Running]

Post by Danko
Did anyone try boiling URB strings?
I was thinking that maybe I could get my URB strings spring to life if I
boiled them (E-string is totally dead, and who knows how long those strings
have been used, and by whome). Not sure if it would work because I would
imagine roundwounds collect more dirt between the windings than
flatwounds...
I'd really like to avoid spending quarter of my salarie on new strings if I
could simply boil the old set.

Boiling strings is another one of those topics that people get weird
about. I've done it dozens of times, it definitely has an effect,
although no one claims that it restores them to brand-new condition.
Why not go ahead and try it? You've got absolutely nothing to lose. If
it doesn't work, you just go out and buy yourself a new set of strings,
which is exactly the position you're in now. Give it a whirl, tell us
what happens.

[Danko]

Post by Brian Running
Boiling strings is another one of those topics that people get weird
about. I've done it dozens of times, it definitely has an effect,
although no one claims that it restores them to brand-new condition.
Why not go ahead and try it? You've got absolutely nothing to lose. If
it doesn't work, you just go out and buy yourself a new set of strings,
which is exactly the position you're in now. Give it a whirl, tell us
what happens.

Ummm, the only problem is that there is no URB strings to buy where I live.
So if boiling fails, I may end up stringless for a month (while they arrive
from Austria, through customs, taxes and all that crap), which I would
really try to avoid. I may cook them after I buy a new set, and then see how
they perform. :)

Danko

[Brian Running]

Post by Danko
Ummm, the only problem is that there is no URB strings to buy where I live.
So if boiling fails, I may end up stringless for a month

I've never had a set of strings dissolve on me yet. Of course, I use
hot water to boil 'em, not 12-molar hydrochloric acid or lava or
anything like that.

[Derek Tearne]

Post by Brian Running

Post by Danko
Ummm, the only problem is that there is no URB strings to buy where I live.
So if boiling fails, I may end up stringless for a month

I've never had a set of strings dissolve on me yet. Of course, I use
hot water to boil 'em, not 12-molar hydrochloric acid or lava or
anything like that.

You've probably never tried boiling nylon or gut cored strings before
either. Let us consider a set of eurosonic bass strings with an inner
braided core of steel and silk, tightly wrapped with a blend of
non-ferrous and noble metals (copper, nickel, zinc, tungsten, etc.)
which are in turn wrapped with a specially shaped and ground polymer.

I feel almost sure that boiling a set of these puppies would not go
well.

Similarly the polymer cored innovation strings on my electric upright
would probably not survive the boiling process in playable condition.

Reading the specifications of the most popular upright bass strings, and
considering the cost and availability of said strings, caution is the
most appropriate action. Many of them seem to contain some material,
even if it's only an internal layer of silk, that would not react well
to boiling or immersion in water.

--- Derek

[Brian Running]

Post by Derek Tearne
You've probably never tried boiling nylon or gut cored strings before
either.

That's true -- I didn't realize he had nylon or gut strings. Boiling
water would certainly wipe out gut, and probably wouldn't be very good
for nylon.

[Danko]

Post by Brian Running

Post by Derek Tearne
You've probably never tried boiling nylon or gut cored strings before
either.

That's true -- I didn't realize he had nylon or gut strings. Boiling
water would certainly wipe out gut, and probably wouldn't be very good
for nylon.

The problem is that I don't really know what the core is made of. Alcohol
will do for now.

Danko