Jumpin Jack Flash Key

[Deputy Dumbya Dawg]

Hey Bassers.

I was learning to play JJF by ear and the song as provided on
their hot rocks compilation to my ear sounds like it starts
with a Bb.

Every tab or lead sheet I see has it a half step up from the
record starting at B.

I just discovered this today. I am wondering if perhaps the
stones played it in another key and the engineers slowed the
tape down. Sometimes they would slow the tape a lot and do the
recording at half speed and then kick it back up.

So my questions are--- Do bands play it starting on B to make
it a little easier to play the open chords?
Do the stones start on B or
Bb when they play live?
Where do you start it?


Peace
dawg

[Don Pearce]

On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 08:52:51 -0400, "Deputy Dumbya Dawg"

Post by Deputy Dumbya Dawg
Hey Bassers.
I was learning to play JJF by ear and the song as provided on
their hot rocks compilation to my ear sounds like it starts
with a Bb.
Every tab or lead sheet I see has it a half step up from the
record starting at B.
I just discovered this today. I am wondering if perhaps the
stones played it in another key and the engineers slowed the
tape down. Sometimes they would slow the tape a lot and do the
recording at half speed and then kick it back up.
So my questions are--- Do bands play it starting on B to make
it a little easier to play the open chords?
Do the stones start on B or
Bb when they play live?
Where do you start it?
Peace
dawg

When you have saxes involved you are pretty much forced into keys like
Bb. A good thing too in some ways. Open strings can be the easy
option, and because they sound so totally different to any stopped
string, I prefer to avoid them when possible. I will generally opt for
a fifth fret in preference.

d

[Oci-One Kanubi]

Post by Don Pearce
On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 08:52:51 -0400, "Deputy Dumbya Dawg"

Post by Deputy Dumbya Dawg
Hey Bassers.
I was learning to play JJF by ear and the song as provided on
their hot rocks compilation to my ear sounds like it starts
with a Bb.
Every tab or lead sheet I see has it a half step up from the
record starting at B.
I just discovered this today. I am wondering if perhaps the
stones played it in another key and the engineers slowed the
tape down. Sometimes they would slow the tape a lot and do the
recording at half speed and then kick it back up.
So my questions are--- Do bands play it starting on B to make
it a little easier to play the open chords?
Do the stones start on B or
Bb when they play live?
Where do you start it?
Peace
dawg

When you have saxes involved you are pretty much forced into keys like
Bb. A good thing too in some ways. Open strings can be the easy
option, and because they sound so totally different to any stopped
string, I prefer to avoid them when possible. I will generally opt for
a fifth fret in preference.

I also avoid open strings like the plague. My reasoning is that they
don't transpose transparently. I learned JJF in B in the 7th-9th fret
range and can now play it in any key, just by position relative to the
tonic, whereas if I had learned it using some open strings I would
have to think to transpose. And my thinker isn't as fast as it used
to be.

-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--
Richard Hopley, Winston-Salem, NC, USA
Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll

[RichL]

Post by Deputy Dumbya Dawg
Hey Bassers.
I was learning to play JJF by ear and the song as provided on
their hot rocks compilation to my ear sounds like it starts
with a Bb.
Every tab or lead sheet I see has it a half step up from the
record starting at B.
I just discovered this today. I am wondering if perhaps the
stones played it in another key and the engineers slowed the
tape down. Sometimes they would slow the tape a lot and do the
recording at half speed and then kick it back up.
So my questions are--- Do bands play it starting on B to make
it a little easier to play the open chords?
Do the stones start on B or
Bb when they play live?
Where do you start it?

I've found several live Stones YouTube clips where it's actually in B, but
it's Bb on the recorded version. I'm guessing that they tuned down 1/2 step
for the recording, but they don't when it's live.

[Rudolf Ziegaus]

Post by RichL
I've found several live Stones YouTube clips where it's actually in B, but
it's Bb on the recorded version. I'm guessing that they tuned down 1/2 step
for the recording, but they don't when it's live.

Just being curious.. why would they do such a thing?


Rudi

[Todd H.]

Post by Deputy Dumbya Dawg
Hey Bassers.
I was learning to play JJF by ear and the song as provided on
their hot rocks compilation to my ear sounds like it starts
with a Bb.
Every tab or lead sheet I see has it a half step up from the
record starting at B.
I just discovered this today. I am wondering if perhaps the
stones played it in another key and the engineers slowed the
tape down. Sometimes they would slow the tape a lot and do the
recording at half speed and then kick it back up.
So my questions are--- Do bands play it starting on B to make
it a little easier to play the open chords?
Do the stones start on B or
Bb when they play live?
Where do you start it?

It may simply be among the myriad of recordings out there where the
band tunes a half step down from the standard A440 EADGBE tuning.

Keith Richards also uses some crazy open tuning, if memory serves.

[Jim Carr]

Post by Todd H.
Keith Richards also uses some crazy open tuning, if memory serves.

Yeh, he does. I once saw some guitar tab in a magazine that had "Honky
Tonk Woman" with some crazy tuning. I managed to play part of it and
damn if it didn't sound cool as shit - just like the original.

[Bassplayer12]

snip

Post by Todd H.
It may simply be among the myriad of recordings out there where the
band tunes a half step down from the standard A440 EADGBE tuning.
Keith Richards also uses some crazy open tuning, if memory serves.

I don't know what key he uses but Johnny Winter's version of JJF absolutely
kicks serious ass...

[Les Cargill]

Post by Bassplayer12
snip

Post by Todd H.
It may simply be among the myriad of recordings out there where the
band tunes a half step down from the standard A440 EADGBE tuning.
Keith Richards also uses some crazy open tuning, if memory serves.

I don't know what key he uses but Johnny Winter's version of JJF absolutely
kicks serious ass...

I'd call it key of G - the signature lick is A to B. Same key as
the Stones version, if the Stones version was A440...

The piano on the Stones studio single version is also out of key right
with the guitars. I'd guess the recorder was off speed. It's
quite a bit sharper than Bb.

--
Les Cargill

[Fletch]

Post by Bassplayer12
snip

Post by Todd H.
It may simply be among the myriad of recordings out there where the
band tunes a half step down from the standard A440 EADGBE tuning.
Keith Richards also uses some crazy open tuning, if memory serves.

I don't know what key he uses but Johnny Winter's version of JJF absolutely
kicks serious ass...

Johnny Winters And Live is the album from 1970. The key is B. I
learned this way back then and then thirteen years later was playing
it nightly in clubs. It is the best version I've ever heard -- and no
open tunings!!

--Fletch

[CS]

Post by Todd H.
It may simply be among the myriad of recordings out there where the
band tunes a half step down from the standard A440 EADGBE tuning.

Did this come up here in the past (too lazy to google search myself..)
and did anyone ever come up with a valid reason for this practice?
Aside from matching someones vocal range or needing to match the pitch
of an instrument that required a flat tuning (someone already mentioned
horns..)?

[Oci-One Kanubi]

Post by CS

Post by Todd H.
It may simply be among the myriad of recordings out there where the
band tunes a half step down from the standard A440 EADGBE tuning.

Did this come up here in the past (too lazy to google search myself..)
and did anyone ever come up with a valid reason for this practice?
Aside from matching someones vocal range or needing to match the pitch
of an instrument that required a flat tuning (someone already mentioned
horns..)?

I think it's a "guitar player" thing. Eddie Van Halen does it a lot,
Jimi and Stevie Ray did it some, and I think Slash and the boys do
too. Maybe to get more pronounced string bends? On the other hand,
U2 do it too, and I think of The Edge more as a producer than as a
shredder

'Course, I cannot tell from the recordings whether any of these guys
detuned or simply played in an unnatural (for guitarists) key, but my
money is on the "1/2-step drop tuning".

-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--
Richard Hopley, Winston-Salem, NC, USA
Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll

[Derek Tearne]

Post by CS

Post by Todd H.
It may simply be among the myriad of recordings out there where the
band tunes a half step down from the standard A440 EADGBE tuning.

Did this come up here in the past (too lazy to google search myself..)
and did anyone ever come up with a valid reason for this practice?

Jumping Jack Flash was recorded a very long time ago. In those days the
final recording sometimes ended up either sharp or flat because the tape
had been sped up or slowed down. This was done for a couple of reasons,
some producers believed that speeding the track up a bit made it sounds
more exciting, or one of the instruments to be overdubbed was sharp or
flat and couldn't be tuned or played in the original key, they wanted it
to fit exactly to a particular length to fit on a single, or the
machinery was broken or sometimes to make it hard for people to learn
the song at home.

So, JJF may well have always been played by the stones in B - like they
appear to play it now - but that particular recording ended up half a
step flat for any of these reasons.

--- Derek

[Mike Rieves]

Post by Derek Tearne

Post by CS

Post by Todd H.
It may simply be among the myriad of recordings out there where the
band tunes a half step down from the standard A440 EADGBE tuning.

Did this come up here in the past (too lazy to google search myself..)
and did anyone ever come up with a valid reason for this practice?

Jumping Jack Flash was recorded a very long time ago. In those days the
final recording sometimes ended up either sharp or flat because the tape
had been sped up or slowed down. This was done for a couple of reasons,
some producers believed that speeding the track up a bit made it sounds
more exciting, or one of the instruments to be overdubbed was sharp or
flat and couldn't be tuned or played in the original key, they wanted it
to fit exactly to a particular length to fit on a single, or the
machinery was broken or sometimes to make it hard for people to learn
the song at home.
So, JJF may well have always been played by the stones in B - like they
appear to play it now - but that particular recording ended up half a
step flat for any of these reasons.
--- Derek

Back in those days, the tape was often sped up or slowed down to make the
song fit in the typical AM radio time slot of two and a half to three
minutes, that's also how the fade to silence at the end of songs came about.

[CS]

Post by Mike Rieves

Post by Derek Tearne
Jumping Jack Flash was recorded a very long time ago. In those days the
final recording sometimes ended up either sharp or flat because the tape
had been sped up or slowed down. This was done for a couple of reasons,
some producers believed that speeding the track up a bit made it sounds
more exciting, or one of the instruments to be overdubbed was sharp or
flat and couldn't be tuned or played in the original key, they wanted it
to fit exactly to a particular length to fit on a single, or the
machinery was broken or sometimes to make it hard for people to learn
the song at home.
So, JJF may well have always been played by the stones in B - like they
appear to play it now - but that particular recording ended up half a
step flat for any of these reasons.
--- Derek

Back in those days, the tape was often sped up or slowed down to make the
song fit in the typical AM radio time slot of two and a half to three
minutes, that's also how the fade to silence at the end of songs came about.

that's about what I suspected...

[d***@mac.com]

Post by CS

Post by Todd H.
It may simply be among the myriad of recordings out there where the
band tunes a half step down from the standard A440 EADGBE tuning.

Did this come up here in the past (too lazy to google search myself..)
and did anyone ever come up with a valid reason for this practice?
Aside from matching someones vocal range or needing to match the pitch
of an instrument that required a flat tuning (someone already mentioned
horns..)?

"Sounds better". At least that was the reason (in so many words)
Stevie Ray gave in an interview. <g> --D-y

[Todd H.]

Post by CS

Post by Todd H.
It may simply be among the myriad of recordings out there where the
band tunes a half step down from the standard A440 EADGBE tuning.

Did this come up here in the past (too lazy to google search myself..)
and did anyone ever come up with a valid reason for this practice?
Aside from matching someones vocal range or needing to match the pitch
of an instrument that required a flat tuning (someone already
mentioned horns..)?

Fatter strings with less tension (thinkin SRV here). Easier to sing
on the road (Bon Jovi tunes down a half step while they tend to record
in standard pitch). A little darker sound (perhaps EVH?) are some of
the reasons.

[Oz Bass]

Post by Todd H.
Keith Richards also uses some crazy open tuning, if memory serves.

Keith uses a pretty standard Blues open G tuning (D, G, D, G, B, D - low
to high) except he normally leaves off the low D string. In the
Stones concert video where I paid attention, he was using an open tuned
Tele with a capo on the 4th fret for JJF, which would make it in B.

Thump

[Mike Fleming]

Post by Todd H.
It may simply be among the myriad of recordings out there where the
band tunes a half step down from the standard A440 EADGBE tuning.

The reason may be that they tuned to the studio piano. For some
reason[1], back in those long-ago days, pianos were often tuned to a
semitone below concert pitch (used to cause problems for me playing
the violin, because I'd tune it at home to our piano which was tuned a
semitone below, then it would be out with the pianos at school which
were kept at concert pitch). If the studio piano was tuned a semitone
down, they'd have been playing in Bb when they thought it was B.

[1] If I remember, I'll ask my dad why.

[Oci-One Kanubi]

Post by Deputy Dumbya Dawg
Hey Bassers.
I was learning to play JJF by ear and the song as provided on
their hot rocks compilation to my ear sounds like it starts
with a Bb.
Every tab or lead sheet I see has it a half step up from the
record starting at B.
I just discovered this today. I am wondering if perhaps the
stones played it in another key and the engineers slowed the
tape down. Sometimes they would slow the tape a lot and do the
recording at half speed and then kick it back up.
So my questions are--- Do bands play it starting on B to make
it a little easier to play the open chords?
Do the stones start on B or
Bb when they play live?
Where do you start it?

The copy I practice to is from one of the live CDs, maybe "Get Yer Ya-
Yas Out", and it is in B.

-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--
Richard Hopley, Winston-Salem, NC, USA
Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll