Discussion:
Jaco Pastorius - Donna Lee - Advice Needed
(too old to reply)
pd
2005-03-22 22:11:28 UTC
Permalink
Hey Folks,

I am on a Jaco kick lately...learned "Come On, Come Over" and last year I
tackled "Portrait of Tracy" although I have since forgotten most of that,
but it was very instructional in opening up the harmonic aspects of the
electric bass.

I have been listening to Charlie Parker lately, and I REALLY want to learn
Donna Lee on the bass (fretted first, fretless later). The speed/chops are
not an issue for me, but I like to learn by phrases. It is really hard for
me to hear the phrasing in this song which is why until now I have dismissed
it. I know though that I am just not "getting it." Does anyone have a
resource that they can point me to on how to go about learning this song?
Doug Kanter
2005-03-22 22:18:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by pd
Hey Folks,
I am on a Jaco kick lately...learned "Come On, Come Over" and last year I
tackled "Portrait of Tracy" although I have since forgotten most of that,
but it was very instructional in opening up the harmonic aspects of the
electric bass.
I have been listening to Charlie Parker lately, and I REALLY want to learn
Donna Lee on the bass (fretted first, fretless later). The speed/chops are
not an issue for me, but I like to learn by phrases. It is really hard for
me to hear the phrasing in this song which is why until now I have
dismissed it. I know though that I am just not "getting it." Does anyone
have a resource that they can point me to on how to go about learning this
song?
I'll be watching this discussion closely. I have the same problem with the
bass lines in the song "Graceland", from the Paul Simon album of the same
name. It sorta makes my brains scrunch up or something. :-)
mcnewsxp
2005-03-22 22:31:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doug Kanter
Post by pd
I am on a Jaco kick lately...learned "Come On, Come Over" and last year I
tackled "Portrait of Tracy" although I have since forgotten most of that,
but it was very instructional in opening up the harmonic aspects of the
electric bass.
I have been listening to Charlie Parker lately, and I REALLY want to
learn Donna Lee on the bass (fretted first, fretless later). The
speed/chops are not an issue for me, but I like to learn by phrases. It
is really hard for me to hear the phrasing in this song which is why
until now I have dismissed it. I know though that I am just not "getting
it." Does anyone have a resource that they can point me to on how to go
about learning this song?
I'll be watching this discussion closely. I have the same problem with the
bass lines in the song "Graceland", from the Paul Simon album of the same
name. It sorta makes my brains scrunch up or something. :-)
i heard that in some supermarket the other day and remembered that i used to
do graceland and a couple other of paul somon's tunes that had that fretless
on them. couldn't tell ya how i figured them out tho. just did it. i
learned a bunch of jaco stuff too. i remember there was a book with jaco
transcriptions floating around about the time birdland was released. i got
teen town from it, but i remember donna lee being there too. doubt you
could find it today.
bvoiced
2005-03-22 23:04:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by pd
Hey Folks,
I am on a Jaco kick lately...learned "Come On, Come Over" and last year I
tackled "Portrait of Tracy" although I have since forgotten most of that,
but it was very instructional in opening up the harmonic aspects of the
electric bass.
I have been listening to Charlie Parker lately, and I REALLY want to learn
Donna Lee on the bass (fretted first, fretless later). The speed/chops are
not an issue for me, but I like to learn by phrases. It is really hard for
me to hear the phrasing in this song which is why until now I have dismissed
it. I know though that I am just not "getting it." Does anyone have a
resource that they can point me to on how to go about learning this song?
You must take the song as a whole. Listen to the head night and day for
several weeks and you'll get it. At least that's how it worked for me.
Frode Berg
2005-03-22 23:14:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by pd
Hey Folks,
I am on a Jaco kick lately...learned "Come On, Come Over" and last
year I tackled "Portrait of Tracy" although I have since forgotten
most of that, but it was very instructional in opening up the
harmonic aspects of the electric bass.
I have been listening to Charlie Parker lately, and I REALLY want to
learn Donna Lee on the bass (fretted first, fretless later). The
speed/chops are not an issue for me, but I like to learn by phrases.
It is really hard for me to hear the phrasing in this song which is
why until now I have dismissed it. I know though that I am just not
"getting it." Does anyone have a resource that they can point me to
on how to go about learning this song?
Check out the old standard "Indiana".
Same chords.
Get a grasp of the harmony first, then tackle the melody based on that.
In this way, the line becomes logical, adn easy to learn.

Frode
S&y
2005-03-23 01:16:31 UTC
Permalink
Notice that you see Bird breathe every 2 to 4 bars from the position of the
rests. Look at Donna Lee on pg 48 of the OmniBook to see what I mean
clearly. It is a transcript of the Savoy recording. I find learning a Bird
tune is easier if I bracket sections defined by the rests, rather than a bar
at a time.

The dilemma, is once you've played the head, phrased like a reed player, how
to transition to an improvisation style more suited to the bass. For me,
that is what makes Jaco's brilliant recording such a gem.

Though I play Parker tunes & learn the melody, I don't have a 'reed
player's' chops, for a performance piece or to improvise. I once worked on
Confirmation until I could record it so I could say I had done. it. I don't
find that satisfying at all.

So much music, so little time,

S&y
Post by Frode Berg
Post by pd
Hey Folks,
I am on a Jaco kick lately...learned "Come On, Come Over" and last
year I tackled "Portrait of Tracy" although I have since forgotten
most of that, but it was very instructional in opening up the
harmonic aspects of the electric bass.
I have been listening to Charlie Parker lately, and I REALLY want to
learn Donna Lee on the bass (fretted first, fretless later). The
speed/chops are not an issue for me, but I like to learn by phrases.
It is really hard for me to hear the phrasing in this song which is
why until now I have dismissed it. I know though that I am just not
"getting it." Does anyone have a resource that they can point me to
on how to go about learning this song?
Check out the old standard "Indiana".
Same chords.
Get a grasp of the harmony first, then tackle the melody based on that.
In this way, the line becomes logical, adn easy to learn.
Frode
John Shaughnessy
2005-03-23 03:18:36 UTC
Permalink
just extrapolate the melody. In any given Parker tune, the same cliché licks
pop up over and over. cop some of them, connect them with scalar material,
alter tones as the chord dictates, and you have a solo..
--
Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm

"I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion
and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's."
- Mark Twain
Post by S&y
Notice that you see Bird breathe every 2 to 4 bars from the position of the
rests. Look at Donna Lee on pg 48 of the OmniBook to see what I mean
clearly. It is a transcript of the Savoy recording. I find learning a Bird
tune is easier if I bracket sections defined by the rests, rather than a bar
at a time.
The dilemma, is once you've played the head, phrased like a reed player, how
to transition to an improvisation style more suited to the bass. For me,
that is what makes Jaco's brilliant recording such a gem.
Though I play Parker tunes & learn the melody, I don't have a 'reed
player's' chops, for a performance piece or to improvise. I once worked on
Confirmation until I could record it so I could say I had done. it. I don't
find that satisfying at all.
So much music, so little time,
S&y
Post by Frode Berg
Post by pd
Hey Folks,
I am on a Jaco kick lately...learned "Come On, Come Over" and last
year I tackled "Portrait of Tracy" although I have since forgotten
most of that, but it was very instructional in opening up the
harmonic aspects of the electric bass.
I have been listening to Charlie Parker lately, and I REALLY want to
learn Donna Lee on the bass (fretted first, fretless later). The
speed/chops are not an issue for me, but I like to learn by phrases.
It is really hard for me to hear the phrasing in this song which is
why until now I have dismissed it. I know though that I am just not
"getting it." Does anyone have a resource that they can point me to
on how to go about learning this song?
Check out the old standard "Indiana".
Same chords.
Get a grasp of the harmony first, then tackle the melody based on that.
In this way, the line becomes logical, adn easy to learn.
Frode
S&y
2005-03-23 03:38:25 UTC
Permalink
8-) Thx John

S&y
Post by John Shaughnessy
just extrapolate the melody. In any given Parker tune, the same cliché licks
pop up over and over. cop some of them, connect them with scalar material,
alter tones as the chord dictates, and you have a solo..
--
Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm
"I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion
and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's."
- Mark Twain
Post by S&y
Notice that you see Bird breathe every 2 to 4 bars from the position of
the
Post by S&y
rests. Look at Donna Lee on pg 48 of the OmniBook to see what I mean
clearly. It is a transcript of the Savoy recording. I find learning a Bird
tune is easier if I bracket sections defined by the rests, rather than a
bar
Post by S&y
at a time.
The dilemma, is once you've played the head, phrased like a reed player,
how
Post by S&y
to transition to an improvisation style more suited to the bass. For me,
that is what makes Jaco's brilliant recording such a gem.
Though I play Parker tunes & learn the melody, I don't have a 'reed
player's' chops, for a performance piece or to improvise. I once worked on
Confirmation until I could record it so I could say I had done. it. I
don't
Post by S&y
find that satisfying at all.
So much music, so little time,
S&y
Post by Frode Berg
Post by pd
Hey Folks,
I am on a Jaco kick lately...learned "Come On, Come Over" and last
year I tackled "Portrait of Tracy" although I have since forgotten
most of that, but it was very instructional in opening up the
harmonic aspects of the electric bass.
I have been listening to Charlie Parker lately, and I REALLY want to
learn Donna Lee on the bass (fretted first, fretless later). The
speed/chops are not an issue for me, but I like to learn by phrases.
It is really hard for me to hear the phrasing in this song which is
why until now I have dismissed it. I know though that I am just not
"getting it." Does anyone have a resource that they can point me to
on how to go about learning this song?
Check out the old standard "Indiana".
Same chords.
Get a grasp of the harmony first, then tackle the melody based on that.
In this way, the line becomes logical, adn easy to learn.
Frode
Jonathan
2005-03-22 22:58:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by pd
Hey Folks,
I am on a Jaco kick lately...learned "Come On, Come Over" and last year I
tackled "Portrait of Tracy" although I have since forgotten most of that,
but it was very instructional in opening up the harmonic aspects of the
electric bass.
I have been listening to Charlie Parker lately, and I REALLY want to learn
Donna Lee on the bass (fretted first, fretless later). The speed/chops are
not an issue for me, but I like to learn by phrases. It is really hard for
me to hear the phrasing in this song which is why until now I have
dismissed it. I know though that I am just not "getting it." Does anyone
have a resource that they can point me to on how to go about learning this
song?
I think Jaco's version sounds "harder" because he doesn't have the
chords going on behind him. When you hear that melody over the chord
changes it's easier to "get it". Victor Wooten and Steve Bailey do a really
cool version on the Bass Extremes Live DVD. Vic does that melody with his
thumb and Steve plays the bassline and chords underneath. Hearing that
really helped me "get" what that melody is all about, because it was more in
context, if you know what I mean.
Check that video out if you haven't already, I bet you'd really get a
kick out of their arrangement and Vic's technique on that song.
Good luck!
-Jonathan
http://www.badspatula.com
Steve Midgley
2005-03-22 23:23:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by pd
Hey Folks,
I am on a Jaco kick lately...learned "Come On, Come Over" and last year I
tackled "Portrait of Tracy" although I have since forgotten most of that,
but it was very instructional in opening up the harmonic aspects of the
electric bass.
I have been listening to Charlie Parker lately, and I REALLY want to learn
Donna Lee on the bass (fretted first, fretless later). The speed/chops are
not an issue for me, but I like to learn by phrases. It is really hard for
me to hear the phrasing in this song which is why until now I have
dismissed it. I know though that I am just not "getting it." Does anyone
have a resource that they can point me to on how to go about learning this
song?
I don't know if this will help or not but I have a PDF (tab and notation) of
Donna Lee at
http://scm-computers.com/DonnaLee.pdf

Steve Midgley
jeffb
2005-03-22 23:30:51 UTC
Permalink
You wanna learn to phrase Donna Lee?
Go to the source, listen to Bird.

jeffb
__________________________________________________________
"What other people think about me is none of my business."
- Dorothy Parker
Axel Bergander
2005-03-23 01:34:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Midgley
I don't know if this will help or not but I have a PDF (tab and notation) of
Donna Lee at
http://scm-computers.com/DonnaLee.pdf
Is there only a tab (never used something like this) or do I miss a font
and all the Bs are notes (probably 8ths)?

Axel
Steve Midgley
2005-03-23 02:36:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Axel Bergander
Post by Steve Midgley
I don't know if this will help or not but I have a PDF (tab and notation) of
Donna Lee at
http://scm-computers.com/DonnaLee.pdf
Is there only a tab (never used something like this) or do I miss a font
and all the Bs are notes (probably 8ths)?
Axel
Oh my! That doesn't work very well at all without the proper font. Download
it at
http://scm-computers.com/GPro.ttf and install it from the Fonts applet in
the Windows control panel.

Steve Midgley
pd
2005-03-23 04:24:56 UTC
Permalink
Nice...thanks!

I have your transcription and another, so it will be interesting to cross
reference the two...
Post by Steve Midgley
Post by Axel Bergander
Post by Steve Midgley
I don't know if this will help or not but I have a PDF (tab and notation) of
Donna Lee at
http://scm-computers.com/DonnaLee.pdf
Is there only a tab (never used something like this) or do I miss a font
and all the Bs are notes (probably 8ths)?
Axel
Oh my! That doesn't work very well at all without the proper font.
Download it at
http://scm-computers.com/GPro.ttf and install it from the Fonts applet in
the Windows control panel.
Steve Midgley
Steve Midgley
2005-03-23 05:50:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by pd
Nice...thanks!
I have your transcription and another, so it will be interesting to cross
reference the two...
You're welcome, PD.

While you're at it, you might as well make it three -
http://scm-computers.com/DonnaLee2.pdf

Steve Midgley
pd
2005-03-23 12:21:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Midgley
Post by pd
Nice...thanks!
I have your transcription and another, so it will be interesting to cross
reference the two...
You're welcome, PD.
While you're at it, you might as well make it three -
http://scm-computers.com/DonnaLee2.pdf
Steve Midgley
Three it is!
ChrisK.
2005-03-23 11:58:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Midgley
I don't know if this will help or not but I have a PDF (tab and notation) of
Donna Lee at
http://scm-computers.com/DonnaLee.pdf
Steve Midgley
Same thing here, but here's a link to some midis and transcriptions:

http://www.artcom.com.au/jaco.htm

--
Chris
pd
2005-03-23 12:28:36 UTC
Permalink
Nice website!
Post by ChrisK.
Post by Steve Midgley
I don't know if this will help or not but I have a PDF (tab and notation)
of Donna Lee at
http://scm-computers.com/DonnaLee.pdf
Steve Midgley
http://www.artcom.com.au/jaco.htm
--
Chris
Philbert
2005-03-22 23:56:20 UTC
Permalink
I wouldn't even begin to suggest that I could give advice on this tune for
bass, but FWIW, when I learned it on trombone (~20 years ago, and yes - for
real, with articulation and everything), I listened closely to Bird and cued
on when he took his breaths. I started learning the melody at about half
speed unttil I could get through the whole tune and then worked it up to
speed - took a couple months. I found that the phrasing was tough to
understand until I got it up to speed, but after that no worries. Unless
you count trying to put together an intelligent, musical solo at that
pace... Performing that tune live was a little like walking the tightrope
without a net - when it worked it was great, when it didn't, carnage...
Hope this helps - good luck and we'll want to hear the clips!
Post by pd
Hey Folks,
I am on a Jaco kick lately...learned "Come On, Come Over" and last year I
tackled "Portrait of Tracy" although I have since forgotten most of that,
but it was very instructional in opening up the harmonic aspects of the
electric bass.
I have been listening to Charlie Parker lately, and I REALLY want to learn
Donna Lee on the bass (fretted first, fretless later). The speed/chops are
not an issue for me, but I like to learn by phrases. It is really hard for
me to hear the phrasing in this song which is why until now I have dismissed
it. I know though that I am just not "getting it." Does anyone have a
resource that they can point me to on how to go about learning this song?
StringerBell
2005-03-23 02:28:02 UTC
Permalink
My little 2 cents:

I feel that when I learned it (a l-o-n-g time ago)I went for too much
economy in the fingerings and shifts. Ive always struggled with the "chops"
thing so my approach was to minimize the positions as much as possible.
I found that theres a couple of phrases that still dont automatically fall
right after LOTS of shedding.
I really should find a more natural fingering for it.

I guess that goes for anything to play. Find the the most comfortable,
flowing fingering, not the most concise.
pd
2005-03-23 02:33:10 UTC
Permalink
Good point...this is probably why I think this tune will actually be easier
to play on fretless.
Post by StringerBell
I feel that when I learned it (a l-o-n-g time ago)I went for too much
economy in the fingerings and shifts. Ive always struggled with the
"chops" thing so my approach was to minimize the positions as much as
possible.
I found that theres a couple of phrases that still dont automatically
fall right after LOTS of shedding.
I really should find a more natural fingering for it.
I guess that goes for anything to play. Find the the most comfortable,
flowing fingering, not the most concise.
jazzdaddy
2005-03-23 21:58:05 UTC
Permalink
Available in powertab:
http://powertabs.net/pta.php?page=song,14354

IMHO, Jaco's recording is not as musical as Bird's original. The melody
makes more sense when you can hear the swing, phrasing, dynamics, and
articulations of the master. Also, since there is no harmonic backdrop,
the dense flurries of notes make little sense by themselves.

I have always thought that Jaco learned and recorded that piece on a
bet, rather than as a real musical statement.
Post by pd
Good point...this is probably why I think this tune will actually be easier
to play on fretless.
Post by StringerBell
I feel that when I learned it (a l-o-n-g time ago)I went for too much
economy in the fingerings and shifts. Ive always struggled with the
"chops" thing so my approach was to minimize the positions as much as
possible.
I found that theres a couple of phrases that still dont
automatically
Post by pd
Post by StringerBell
fall right after LOTS of shedding.
I really should find a more natural fingering for it.
I guess that goes for anything to play. Find the the most
comfortable,
Post by pd
Post by StringerBell
flowing fingering, not the most concise.
pd
2005-03-23 22:34:50 UTC
Permalink
This was VERY helpful...I forgot I had powertab installed, and I opened this
up and was able to kill the 213 temp so the program defaults to a more
"human" 120 bpm pace. Then I can hear this through my sound card MIDI synth
and see the tab light up as it plays (I used to read pretty well on bass,
but the upper registers were never my forte).

Thanks VERY much!
Post by jazzdaddy
http://powertabs.net/pta.php?page=song,14354
IMHO, Jaco's recording is not as musical as Bird's original. The melody
makes more sense when you can hear the swing, phrasing, dynamics, and
articulations of the master. Also, since there is no harmonic backdrop,
the dense flurries of notes make little sense by themselves.
I have always thought that Jaco learned and recorded that piece on a
bet, rather than as a real musical statement.
Post by pd
Good point...this is probably why I think this tune will actually be
easier
Post by pd
to play on fretless.
Post by StringerBell
I feel that when I learned it (a l-o-n-g time ago)I went for too
much
Post by pd
Post by StringerBell
economy in the fingerings and shifts. Ive always struggled with the
"chops" thing so my approach was to minimize the positions as much
as
Post by pd
Post by StringerBell
possible.
I found that theres a couple of phrases that still dont
automatically
Post by pd
Post by StringerBell
fall right after LOTS of shedding.
I really should find a more natural fingering for it.
I guess that goes for anything to play. Find the the most
comfortable,
Post by pd
Post by StringerBell
flowing fingering, not the most concise.
Breaker
2005-03-23 17:18:36 UTC
Permalink
I decided to learn the head of Donna Lee, and I worked on it from a
midi file imported into my sequencer, and slowed down a little. There
are midi files of both the Bird version and the Jaco version available
online.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 18:56:20 -0500, "Philbert"
Post by Philbert
I wouldn't even begin to suggest that I could give advice on this tune for
bass, but FWIW, when I learned it on trombone (~20 years ago, and yes - for
real, with articulation and everything), I listened closely to Bird and cued
on when he took his breaths. I started learning the melody at about half
speed unttil I could get through the whole tune and then worked it up to
speed - took a couple months. I found that the phrasing was tough to
understand until I got it up to speed, but after that no worries. Unless
you count trying to put together an intelligent, musical solo at that
pace... Performing that tune live was a little like walking the tightrope
without a net - when it worked it was great, when it didn't, carnage...
Hope this helps - good luck and we'll want to hear the clips!
Post by pd
Hey Folks,
I am on a Jaco kick lately...learned "Come On, Come Over" and last year I
tackled "Portrait of Tracy" although I have since forgotten most of that,
but it was very instructional in opening up the harmonic aspects of the
electric bass.
I have been listening to Charlie Parker lately, and I REALLY want to learn
Donna Lee on the bass (fretted first, fretless later). The speed/chops are
not an issue for me, but I like to learn by phrases. It is really hard for
me to hear the phrasing in this song which is why until now I have
dismissed
Post by pd
it. I know though that I am just not "getting it." Does anyone have a
resource that they can point me to on how to go about learning this song?
pd
2005-03-23 23:48:50 UTC
Permalink
You wouldn't by chance be able to email me such file?
Post by Breaker
I decided to learn the head of Donna Lee, and I worked on it from a
midi file imported into my sequencer, and slowed down a little. There
are midi files of both the Bird version and the Jaco version available
online.
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 18:56:20 -0500, "Philbert"
Post by Philbert
I wouldn't even begin to suggest that I could give advice on this tune for
bass, but FWIW, when I learned it on trombone (~20 years ago, and yes - for
real, with articulation and everything), I listened closely to Bird and cued
on when he took his breaths. I started learning the melody at about half
speed unttil I could get through the whole tune and then worked it up to
speed - took a couple months. I found that the phrasing was tough to
understand until I got it up to speed, but after that no worries. Unless
you count trying to put together an intelligent, musical solo at that
pace... Performing that tune live was a little like walking the tightrope
without a net - when it worked it was great, when it didn't, carnage...
Hope this helps - good luck and we'll want to hear the clips!
Post by pd
Hey Folks,
I am on a Jaco kick lately...learned "Come On, Come Over" and last year I
tackled "Portrait of Tracy" although I have since forgotten most of that,
but it was very instructional in opening up the harmonic aspects of the
electric bass.
I have been listening to Charlie Parker lately, and I REALLY want to learn
Donna Lee on the bass (fretted first, fretless later). The speed/chops are
not an issue for me, but I like to learn by phrases. It is really hard for
me to hear the phrasing in this song which is why until now I have
dismissed
Post by pd
it. I know though that I am just not "getting it." Does anyone have a
resource that they can point me to on how to go about learning this song?
Mark Marsh
2005-03-23 07:40:49 UTC
Permalink
Learn to sing it first.
Post by pd
Hey Folks,
I am on a Jaco kick lately...learned "Come On, Come Over" and last year I
tackled "Portrait of Tracy" although I have since forgotten most of that,
but it was very instructional in opening up the harmonic aspects of the
electric bass.
I have been listening to Charlie Parker lately, and I REALLY want to learn
Donna Lee on the bass (fretted first, fretless later). The speed/chops are
not an issue for me, but I like to learn by phrases. It is really hard for
me to hear the phrasing in this song which is why until now I have dismissed
it. I know though that I am just not "getting it." Does anyone have a
resource that they can point me to on how to go about learning this song?
Derek Tearne
2005-03-23 08:26:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Marsh
Learn to sing it first.
I just tried that.

Has anyone got recommendations for products to remove 'red wine and
spittle' splatters from computer screens?

--- Derek
--
Derek Tearne - ***@url.co.nz
Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.manyhands.co.nz/
Mark Marsh
2005-03-24 04:11:33 UTC
Permalink
Derek-
Yeah, Lincoln and Jackson shaking hands - on a little piece
of paper, coated with chlorafil.

(sorry - couldn't resist plugging Ray Charles' version
of "Greenbacks")
-Mark
Post by Derek Tearne
Post by Mark Marsh
Learn to sing it first.
I just tried that.
Has anyone got recommendations for products to remove 'red wine and
spittle' splatters from computer screens?
--- Derek
Heinz
2005-03-23 14:21:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by pd
Hey Folks,
I am on a Jaco kick lately...learned "Come On, Come Over" and last year I
tackled "Portrait of Tracy" although I have since forgotten most of that,
but it was very instructional in opening up the harmonic aspects of the
electric bass.
I have been listening to Charlie Parker lately, and I REALLY want to learn
Donna Lee on the bass (fretted first, fretless later). The speed/chops are
not an issue for me, but I like to learn by phrases. It is really hard for
me to hear the phrasing in this song which is why until now I have dismissed
it. I know though that I am just not "getting it." Does anyone have a
resource that they can point me to on how to go about learning this song?
Put that song into AmazingSlowDowner, slow it down until you start to hear
that 'swing' Jaco has in the beginning of the song.

Cheers
Heinz
Brian Running
2005-03-23 17:30:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by pd
I have been listening to Charlie Parker lately, and I REALLY want to learn
Donna Lee on the bass (fretted first, fretless later). The speed/chops are
not an issue for me, but I like to learn by phrases. It is really hard for
me to hear the phrasing in this song which is why until now I have dismissed
it. I know though that I am just not "getting it." Does anyone have a
resource that they can point me to on how to go about learning this song?
Can't help you with learning the song -- you're head and shoulders above
me as far as chops go, I'm sure you'll have it down before long -- but
as far as the "getting it" part, Jaco's "Donna Lee" is maybe the best
example of a song that bass players, and only bass players, will ever
"get." Non-bassist listeners always glaze over whenever you try to get
them to listen to and admire Jaco's work, but sitting through Donna Lee
is like torture for a lot of them. To them, it just sounds like a lot
of notes, not music.
Cody M. Stumpo
2005-03-23 22:14:07 UTC
Permalink
Do you have the Charlie Parker Omnibook in bass clef? It's a really really
good practice tool. Once you play enough Parker tunes, your fingers start
to understand. Especially if you also have recordings available to check
yourself with. Pay attention also to how the notes fit with the chords.

I always give up on Donna Lee because the fingerings are too
unwieldy. Some other songs of his are actually pretty natural on bass.
Definitely start slow and get the rhythms right (including feel) before
speeding up. Do you aim to learn Jaco's recorded solo note for note as well,
or do your own?

pd <***@buthere.com> wrote:
: Hey Folks,

: I am on a Jaco kick lately...learned "Come On, Come Over" and last year I
: tackled "Portrait of Tracy" although I have since forgotten most of that,
: but it was very instructional in opening up the harmonic aspects of the
: electric bass.

: I have been listening to Charlie Parker lately, and I REALLY want to learn
: Donna Lee on the bass (fretted first, fretless later). The speed/chops are
: not an issue for me, but I like to learn by phrases. It is really hard for
: me to hear the phrasing in this song which is why until now I have dismissed
: it. I know though that I am just not "getting it." Does anyone have a
: resource that they can point me to on how to go about learning this song?
--
---------------------------*************************------------------------
***@soda.CSUA.berkeley.edu http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~cody/
Holding a titular Archbishopric since 1999.
pd
2005-03-24 01:27:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cody M. Stumpo
Do you have the Charlie Parker Omnibook in bass clef? It's a really really
good practice tool. Once you play enough Parker tunes, your fingers start
to understand. Especially if you also have recordings available to check
yourself with. Pay attention also to how the notes fit with the chords.
I always give up on Donna Lee because the fingerings are too
unwieldy. Some other songs of his are actually pretty natural on bass.
Definitely start slow and get the rhythms right (including feel) before
speeding up. Do you aim to learn Jaco's recorded solo note for note as well,
or do your own?
Not sure yet...I have divided the head up into 9 parts that make "sense" to
me as phrases...I started to work on this tonight and am through the first
two parts, although I don't have the speed yet (I am working it through
first at 120 bpm, and then I will work the speed up). I see what you mean
though about the fingerings, but that is why I wanted to tackle this to
shatter my comfort zone on the bass, and become more chromatic/harmonic
rather than modal.

Once I get the head down, I will probably go for the solo, but that is going
to take some time as I am terrible at reading tab, AND I suck at reading
bass cleff in higher registers.
Post by Cody M. Stumpo
: Hey Folks,
: I am on a Jaco kick lately...learned "Come On, Come Over" and last year I
: tackled "Portrait of Tracy" although I have since forgotten most of that,
: but it was very instructional in opening up the harmonic aspects of the
: electric bass.
: I have been listening to Charlie Parker lately, and I REALLY want to learn
: Donna Lee on the bass (fretted first, fretless later). The speed/chops are
: not an issue for me, but I like to learn by phrases. It is really hard for
: me to hear the phrasing in this song which is why until now I have dismissed
: it. I know though that I am just not "getting it." Does anyone have a
: resource that they can point me to on how to go about learning this song?
--
---------------------------*************************------------------------
Holding a titular Archbishopric since 1999.
jeffb
2005-03-24 05:32:53 UTC
Permalink
If you spent as much time practicing it you are fucking around talking
about it you'd have it together by now.

jeffb
__________________________________________________________
"What other people think about me is none of my business."
- Dorothy Parker
pd
2005-03-24 12:53:43 UTC
Permalink
Not sure why you care so much, Jeff. Read your statement below. It sounds to
me like you are frustrated about something.
Post by jeffb
If you spent as much time practicing it you are fucking around talking
about it you'd have it together by now.
jeffb
__________________________________________________________
"What other people think about me is none of my business."
- Dorothy Parker
jeffb
2005-03-24 18:01:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by pd
Not sure why you care so much, Jeff. Read your statement below. It sounds to
me like you are frustrated about something.
I'm just tyin' to help big fella. I may not like you much pd but I
honestly think the world will be a better place if you're a better
bass player. I got Donna Lee together 'cause I SHEDDED it for hours
and hours. Listen to what Cory is saying and burn through a bunch of
Parker heads. I'd do them as written in treble clef as that's how
you're gonna encounter them out in the real world and who the hell can
read 6 ledger lines in bass clef? Be careful dividing them up into
what you think are logical phrases, as you get it together how you
hear them will change. Again, go listen to Bird, he plays them better
than anyone else ever has or likely ever will.




jeffb
__________________________________________________________
"What other people think about me is none of my business."
- Dorothy Parker
pd
2005-03-24 18:25:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by jeffb
Post by pd
Not sure why you care so much, Jeff. Read your statement below. It sounds to
me like you are frustrated about something.
I'm just tyin' to help big fella. I may not like you much pd but I
honestly think the world will be a better place if you're a better
bass player.
I got to say, I am feeling REALLY down right now after listening to Frode's
CD. Down in a sense that I know I will never be as good as this, but it will
motivate me to at LEAST nail Donna Lee!

I got Donna Lee together 'cause I SHEDDED it for hours
Post by jeffb
and hours. Listen to what Cory is saying and burn through a bunch of
Parker heads. I'd do them as written in treble clef as that's how
you're gonna encounter them out in the real world and who the hell can
read 6 ledger lines in bass clef? Be careful dividing them up into
what you think are logical phrases, as you get it together how you
hear them will change. Again, go listen to Bird, he plays them better
than anyone else ever has or likely ever will.
jeffb
__________________________________________________________
"What other people think about me is none of my business."
- Dorothy Parker
Derek Tearne
2005-03-25 00:08:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by pd
I got to say, I am feeling REALLY down right now after listening to Frode's
CD. Down in a sense that I know I will never be as good as this, but it will
motivate me to at LEAST nail Donna Lee!
And if you *do* nail Donna Lee will you be any closer to playing like
Frode? Or even playing like Jaco?

Better to learn the process Jaco went through to write the thing in the
first place - pick a completely different charlie parker tune and work
at *that*. Sure, at the end people will just say "Hey, that's a cool
solo" - instead of saying "Hey, that sounds just like Jaco!" but you'll
have learned more.

Furthermore, do you think Jaco got to be as good as he was by starting
off topic political flame wars every time he felt his playing wasn't up
to snuff?

Walk away from the keyboard.

Go and practice.

That's what I'm going to do!

--- Derek
--
Derek Tearne - ***@url.co.nz
Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.manyhands.co.nz/
pd
2005-03-25 01:15:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Tearne
Post by pd
I got to say, I am feeling REALLY down right now after listening to Frode's
CD. Down in a sense that I know I will never be as good as this, but it will
motivate me to at LEAST nail Donna Lee!
And if you *do* nail Donna Lee will you be any closer to playing like
Frode? Or even playing like Jaco?
Better to learn the process Jaco went through to write the thing in the
first place - pick a completely different charlie parker tune and work
at *that*. Sure, at the end people will just say "Hey, that's a cool
solo" - instead of saying "Hey, that sounds just like Jaco!" but you'll
have learned more.
Furthermore, do you think Jaco got to be as good as he was by starting
off topic political flame wars every time he felt his playing wasn't up
to snuff?
Yeah, that's why I do it...you got me.

{sarcasm off}
Post by Derek Tearne
Walk away from the keyboard.
Go and practice.
That's what I'm going to do!
--- Derek
--
Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.manyhands.co.nz/
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