Behringer AB100 dissapointment...

[Derek Tearne]

For years I've been on a quest for an a/b switching device that allows
one to switch between two very different basses, set the input levels
appropriately and plug the output into an amplifier.

This is necessary as so few bass amplifiers have more than one channel
these days (this is apparently to stop the guitarist plugging in!).

I don't need EQ - in fact this device must *not* colour the sound or
hiss like an angry snake. Oh, and I'd rather it didn't cost the earth -
which is the problem with the BassBone, Lehle cool switch (which is
exactly what I need), or the Boss LS-2 (which is what the AB100 is
inspired by).

So, I was really pleased to see Behringer bring out the AB100. It
appears to have all the features I need, two inputs, two level controls,
coloured LEDs so I can tell which instrument is 'live' on a dark stage.

What could be wrong with it, one asks, it looks perfect.

The little bit of paper that comes with it says "Thank you for showing
your confidence in us by purchasing the BEHRINGER INSTRUMENT/AMP
SELECTOR AB100. This high-quality instrument and amp switch is designed
for both guitar & bass players who use several amps or instruments. The
AB100 allows you to switch between gear noiselessly and instantaneously,
adjusting individual volume settings without coloring the sound of your
instrument".

If it did what this paragraph says I'd be a happy man. However
something in that paragraph is at best misleading.

So, I go into the shop. I ask to try one out. The sales person was
somewhat disparaging about the unit, after all, it is made of plastic -
which was a concern - but in the end it's whether it does the job that
matters.

I say "I want to hear whether it has a hiss like angry snake or not", he
says "Well, I think I can guarantee to demonstrate that hiss".

Imagine our surprise when the device in fact didn't hiss. Furthermore,
it doesn't appear to colour the sound in any way - my subsequent tests
at home have confirmed this. It is as silent as any stomp box I've ever
come across, the channel switching happens with narry a click, or even a
hint of a click.

At this point I'm so astonished at the quality of this device that I cut
short my experimentation and buy it.

This was my mistake. I was so concerned that, like many stomp boxes
before this by many brands, it would hiss or crackle that I forgot to
test the one thing it absolutely had to do - allow independent control
of the input levels. I did twiddle the knobs to see if they crackled -
they didn't - and I did hear the level change on channel A.

Unfortunately, due to time and space constraints I didn't actually plug
two basses into the unit and try setting the levels of each channel.

Of course I did this as soon as I got home.

Imagine my dissapointment when this otherwise astonishingly good pedal
wouldn't let me change the level of the second input.

You see, it turns out, that the level controls only adjust the *output*
levels, so when you have the device in 2 in 1 out mode only *one* of the
levels can be set.

It's only when you read the fine print, in fact it's only when you read
the fine print and deduce what's missing, that it becomes clear that the
levels only affect the *output* level - and that as one of the jack
sockets is both an input and an output - if you're using out B/in 2 as
an input you can only set the level for output A.

Useless.

So, it's back to the shop tomorrow. And back to the drawing board.

It was so very very close to being an excellent device.

Unfortunately it's also a useless device and I feel stupid for assuming
that something would do what it said it would do and what anyone would
reasonably expect it to do.

Maybe I should try a bass bone after all.

--- Derek

[Pavel Semyonov]

Hello Derek,
Your 'cry of soul' about your diappointment with simple BR AB100 device
really took me to help you.

You should not be confused at all and there should be no problem with what
you had.

AT first, there could be no hiss/clicks/etc since there is a relay switcher.
There is no PREAMP inside of this device, only passive volume knobs, so you
can only decrease the volume, and not to increase it.

At second, in case you need to switch one instrument between two amps, then
you'll have two level regulators. Note, that you also have the input level
and volume regulators at each of your two amps. So, the volume knobs on the
AB100 are actually useless in this case.

At third, in case you need to switch two instruments into one amp, then only
one output volume (A) will be functional, whcih will adjust muxed signal to
the amp. Note, that output B is not functional in this case. Again, what is
the reason to have regulators in this case?: use volume regulators on your
instruments instead and you are done.

So, actually required will be to have switch without any regulators. BH has
a better version: AB200, which is a dual switch. Consider it.
--
Regards,
Pavel

Post by Derek Tearne
For years I've been on a quest for an a/b switching device that allows
one to switch between two very different basses, set the input levels
appropriately and plug the output into an amplifier.
This is necessary as so few bass amplifiers have more than one channel
these days (this is apparently to stop the guitarist plugging in!).
I don't need EQ - in fact this device must *not* colour the sound or
hiss like an angry snake. Oh, and I'd rather it didn't cost the earth -
which is the problem with the BassBone, Lehle cool switch (which is
exactly what I need), or the Boss LS-2 (which is what the AB100 is
inspired by).
So, I was really pleased to see Behringer bring out the AB100. It
appears to have all the features I need, two inputs, two level controls,
coloured LEDs so I can tell which instrument is 'live' on a dark stage.
What could be wrong with it, one asks, it looks perfect.
The little bit of paper that comes with it says "Thank you for showing
your confidence in us by purchasing the BEHRINGER INSTRUMENT/AMP
SELECTOR AB100. This high-quality instrument and amp switch is designed
for both guitar & bass players who use several amps or instruments. The
AB100 allows you to switch between gear noiselessly and instantaneously,
adjusting individual volume settings without coloring the sound of your
instrument".
If it did what this paragraph says I'd be a happy man. However
something in that paragraph is at best misleading.
So, I go into the shop. I ask to try one out. The sales person was
somewhat disparaging about the unit, after all, it is made of plastic -
which was a concern - but in the end it's whether it does the job that
matters.
I say "I want to hear whether it has a hiss like angry snake or not", he
says "Well, I think I can guarantee to demonstrate that hiss".
Imagine our surprise when the device in fact didn't hiss. Furthermore,
it doesn't appear to colour the sound in any way - my subsequent tests
at home have confirmed this. It is as silent as any stomp box I've ever
come across, the channel switching happens with narry a click, or even a
hint of a click.
At this point I'm so astonished at the quality of this device that I cut
short my experimentation and buy it.
This was my mistake. I was so concerned that, like many stomp boxes
before this by many brands, it would hiss or crackle that I forgot to
test the one thing it absolutely had to do - allow independent control
of the input levels. I did twiddle the knobs to see if they crackled -
they didn't - and I did hear the level change on channel A.
Unfortunately, due to time and space constraints I didn't actually plug
two basses into the unit and try setting the levels of each channel.
Of course I did this as soon as I got home.
Imagine my dissapointment when this otherwise astonishingly good pedal
wouldn't let me change the level of the second input.
You see, it turns out, that the level controls only adjust the *output*
levels, so when you have the device in 2 in 1 out mode only *one* of the
levels can be set.
It's only when you read the fine print, in fact it's only when you read
the fine print and deduce what's missing, that it becomes clear that the
levels only affect the *output* level - and that as one of the jack
sockets is both an input and an output - if you're using out B/in 2 as
an input you can only set the level for output A.
Useless.
So, it's back to the shop tomorrow. And back to the drawing board.
It was so very very close to being an excellent device.
Unfortunately it's also a useless device and I feel stupid for assuming
that something would do what it said it would do and what anyone would
reasonably expect it to do.
Maybe I should try a bass bone after all.
--- Derek
--
Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.manyhands.co.nz/

[Derek Tearne]

Post by Pavel Semyonov
Hello Derek,
Your 'cry of soul' about your diappointment with simple BR AB100 device
really took me to help you.
You should not be confused at all and there should be no problem with what
you had.

Well, "dedicated level controls for precise adjustment" seemed pretty
clear to me at the time. As does "adjusting individual volume
settings". I have to say this is an egregiously misleading description
for a device which - as you point out - only adjusts the level of the
*outputs*.

Post by Pavel Semyonov
At second, in case you need to switch one instrument between two amps, then
you'll have two level regulators.
Note, that you also have the input level
and volume regulators at each of your two amps. So, the volume knobs on the
AB100 are actually useless in this case.

Absolutely! In the event I wanted to do this a simple A/B box, of which
there are many on the market, would have sufficed.

This is why I find it so boggling that a company would design a device
which doesn't do the simgle useful thing it claims to do and instead
does something useless!

Post by Pavel Semyonov
At third, in case you need to switch two instruments into one amp, then only
one output volume (A) will be functional, whcih will adjust muxed signal to
the amp. Note, that output B is not functional in this case. Again, what is
the reason to have regulators in this case?: use volume regulators on your
instruments instead and you are done.

The reason for not doing this is that the output of the instruments I
use is quite radically different. I have to set the Wal on about 6 and
the electric upright on full to reach volume parity. I habitually turn
the volume down on each instrument when I swap. Experience suggests
that adjusting the volumes on the bass will guarantee that, at some
point during a gig, I *will* end up forgetting and turning the Wal on
full, or will remember but turn it either slightly too low or slightly
too high. It is much safer to use a switcher or mixer to the get the
levels the same with both instruments on full. I have been using a
behringer mixer to achieve this - but it is relatively big, has a large
wall wart external power supply, colours the sound even with the EQ set
flat and hisses at times.

Post by Pavel Semyonov
So, actually required will be to have switch without any regulators. BH has
a better version: AB200, which is a dual switch. Consider it.

It doesn't do the one thing I require - allow the input level to be set.

It also isn't available in New Zealand yet and is unlikely to be
available by friday night.

--- Derek

[ChrisK.]

Post by Derek Tearne

Post by Pavel Semyonov
Hello Derek,
Your 'cry of soul' about your diappointment with simple BR AB100 device
really took me to help you.
You should not be confused at all and there should be no problem with what
you had.

Well, "dedicated level controls for precise adjustment" seemed pretty
clear to me at the time. As does "adjusting individual volume
settings". I have to say this is an egregiously misleading description
for a device which - as you point out - only adjusts the level of the
*outputs*.

The Boss LS2 will do what you want I think..

[Derek Tearne]

Post by ChrisK.
The Boss LS2 will do what you want I think..

I believe so, and I expected the Boss LS-2 clone to achieve the same
thing.

My mistake.

--- Derek

[John Shaughnessy]

a) It's Behrenger, what do you expect?

b) What you REALLY need is the Raven Labs PMBII:
http://www.raven-labs.com/mainframe.html

Unfortunately, raven labs is no longer in business. Check with the high end
bass guys for NOS (Bass NW, etc) or try eBay.
--
Lessons, music and more at www.jmsjazz.com

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid,
but most stupid people are conservatives."
- John Stuart Mill

Post by Derek Tearne
For years I've been on a quest for an a/b switching device that allows
one to switch between two very different basses, set the input levels
appropriately and plug the output into an amplifier.
This is necessary as so few bass amplifiers have more than one channel
these days (this is apparently to stop the guitarist plugging in!).
I don't need EQ - in fact this device must *not* colour the sound or
hiss like an angry snake. Oh, and I'd rather it didn't cost the earth -
which is the problem with the BassBone, Lehle cool switch (which is
exactly what I need), or the Boss LS-2 (which is what the AB100 is
inspired by).
So, I was really pleased to see Behringer bring out the AB100. It
appears to have all the features I need, two inputs, two level controls,
coloured LEDs so I can tell which instrument is 'live' on a dark stage.
What could be wrong with it, one asks, it looks perfect.
The little bit of paper that comes with it says "Thank you for showing
your confidence in us by purchasing the BEHRINGER INSTRUMENT/AMP
SELECTOR AB100. This high-quality instrument and amp switch is designed
for both guitar & bass players who use several amps or instruments. The
AB100 allows you to switch between gear noiselessly and instantaneously,
adjusting individual volume settings without coloring the sound of your
instrument".
If it did what this paragraph says I'd be a happy man. However
something in that paragraph is at best misleading.
So, I go into the shop. I ask to try one out. The sales person was
somewhat disparaging about the unit, after all, it is made of plastic -
which was a concern - but in the end it's whether it does the job that
matters.
I say "I want to hear whether it has a hiss like angry snake or not", he
says "Well, I think I can guarantee to demonstrate that hiss".
Imagine our surprise when the device in fact didn't hiss. Furthermore,
it doesn't appear to colour the sound in any way - my subsequent tests
at home have confirmed this. It is as silent as any stomp box I've ever
come across, the channel switching happens with narry a click, or even a
hint of a click.
At this point I'm so astonished at the quality of this device that I cut
short my experimentation and buy it.
This was my mistake. I was so concerned that, like many stomp boxes
before this by many brands, it would hiss or crackle that I forgot to
test the one thing it absolutely had to do - allow independent control
of the input levels. I did twiddle the knobs to see if they crackled -
they didn't - and I did hear the level change on channel A.
Unfortunately, due to time and space constraints I didn't actually plug
two basses into the unit and try setting the levels of each channel.
Of course I did this as soon as I got home.
Imagine my dissapointment when this otherwise astonishingly good pedal
wouldn't let me change the level of the second input.
You see, it turns out, that the level controls only adjust the *output*
levels, so when you have the device in 2 in 1 out mode only *one* of the
levels can be set.
It's only when you read the fine print, in fact it's only when you read
the fine print and deduce what's missing, that it becomes clear that the
levels only affect the *output* level - and that as one of the jack
sockets is both an input and an output - if you're using out B/in 2 as
an input you can only set the level for output A.
Useless.
So, it's back to the shop tomorrow. And back to the drawing board.
It was so very very close to being an excellent device.
Unfortunately it's also a useless device and I feel stupid for assuming
that something would do what it said it would do and what anyone would
reasonably expect it to do.
Maybe I should try a bass bone after all.
--- Derek
--
Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.manyhands.co.nz/

[Derek Tearne]

Post by John Shaughnessy
a) It's Behrenger, what do you expect?

I expected it to do what it said it would, but probably either hiss like
an angry snake, or collapse the second time I used it on stage.

Post by John Shaughnessy
http://www.raven-labs.com/mainframe.html
Unfortunately, raven labs is no longer in business. Check with the high end
bass guys for NOS (Bass NW, etc) or try eBay.

That fails my other criteria - it costs the earth - and (even when they
were still being built) is impossible to obtain in New Zealand.

If I was prepared to pay that kind of money though,the PMB-II would have
been on my list, along with the equivalently priced Radial Bass Bone, or
the lehle ***@1 or even the Boss LS-2.

--- Derek

[John Shaughnessy]

Oops, that link doesn't go anywhere. There's a better one:

http://www.raven-labs.com/pages/products/pmb1/pmb1.html

This one is good solution too:

http://www.raven-labs.com/pages/products/mdb1/mdb1.html


The difference is, the first one is for BLENDING two inputs; the latter is
for MIXING two inputs. A subtle difference, but if you read the descriptions
it becomes clear.
--
Lessons, music and more at www.jmsjazz.com

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid,
but most stupid people are conservatives."
- John Stuart Mill

Post by Derek Tearne
For years I've been on a quest for an a/b switching device that allows
one to switch between two very different basses, set the input levels
appropriately and plug the output into an amplifier.
This is necessary as so few bass amplifiers have more than one channel
these days (this is apparently to stop the guitarist plugging in!).
I don't need EQ - in fact this device must *not* colour the sound or
hiss like an angry snake. Oh, and I'd rather it didn't cost the earth -
which is the problem with the BassBone, Lehle cool switch (which is
exactly what I need), or the Boss LS-2 (which is what the AB100 is
inspired by).
So, I was really pleased to see Behringer bring out the AB100. It
appears to have all the features I need, two inputs, two level controls,
coloured LEDs so I can tell which instrument is 'live' on a dark stage.
What could be wrong with it, one asks, it looks perfect.
The little bit of paper that comes with it says "Thank you for showing
your confidence in us by purchasing the BEHRINGER INSTRUMENT/AMP
SELECTOR AB100. This high-quality instrument and amp switch is designed
for both guitar & bass players who use several amps or instruments. The
AB100 allows you to switch between gear noiselessly and instantaneously,
adjusting individual volume settings without coloring the sound of your
instrument".
If it did what this paragraph says I'd be a happy man. However
something in that paragraph is at best misleading.
So, I go into the shop. I ask to try one out. The sales person was
somewhat disparaging about the unit, after all, it is made of plastic -
which was a concern - but in the end it's whether it does the job that
matters.
I say "I want to hear whether it has a hiss like angry snake or not", he
says "Well, I think I can guarantee to demonstrate that hiss".
Imagine our surprise when the device in fact didn't hiss. Furthermore,
it doesn't appear to colour the sound in any way - my subsequent tests
at home have confirmed this. It is as silent as any stomp box I've ever
come across, the channel switching happens with narry a click, or even a
hint of a click.
At this point I'm so astonished at the quality of this device that I cut
short my experimentation and buy it.
This was my mistake. I was so concerned that, like many stomp boxes
before this by many brands, it would hiss or crackle that I forgot to
test the one thing it absolutely had to do - allow independent control
of the input levels. I did twiddle the knobs to see if they crackled -
they didn't - and I did hear the level change on channel A.
Unfortunately, due to time and space constraints I didn't actually plug
two basses into the unit and try setting the levels of each channel.
Of course I did this as soon as I got home.
Imagine my dissapointment when this otherwise astonishingly good pedal
wouldn't let me change the level of the second input.
You see, it turns out, that the level controls only adjust the *output*
levels, so when you have the device in 2 in 1 out mode only *one* of the
levels can be set.
It's only when you read the fine print, in fact it's only when you read
the fine print and deduce what's missing, that it becomes clear that the
levels only affect the *output* level - and that as one of the jack
sockets is both an input and an output - if you're using out B/in 2 as
an input you can only set the level for output A.
Useless.
So, it's back to the shop tomorrow. And back to the drawing board.
It was so very very close to being an excellent device.
Unfortunately it's also a useless device and I feel stupid for assuming
that something would do what it said it would do and what anyone would
reasonably expect it to do.
Maybe I should try a bass bone after all.
--- Derek
--
Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.manyhands.co.nz/

[Gregory Rochford]

Post by Derek Tearne
You see, it turns out, that the level controls only adjust the *output*
levels, so when you have the device in 2 in 1 out mode only *one* of the
levels can be set.
It's only when you read the fine print, in fact it's only when you read
the fine print and deduce what's missing, that it becomes clear that the
levels only affect the *output* level - and that as one of the jack
sockets is both an input and an output - if you're using out B/in 2 as
an input you can only set the level for output A.

Would it do what you want if you plugged the bass with more output
into the jack that can be adjusted, and reduce it's output to
match the lower output bass? IOW, bring one input to down to match
the other input's level, rather than try to bring both inputs
to some common meeting point...

best
gr

[b***@iwaynet.net]

The only problem with the Raven is it's active and takes batteries.

I've been trying to deal with this problem too and I looked at the BH
but I think they tried to do too much. I've derived that what I really
want is something like the Rolls passive mixer but with foot switch
buttons and leds to show which channels are on. I DO have a passive
mixer I use for multiple basses (up to 4) but the problem is that you
have to use the channel volume controls to turn any channel completely
off. That is a pain. I got an old Fender foot switch at the guitar show
to convert to such a device, but I've found the circuit is a bit more
tricky than I thought. I can see why Raven went active to simplify
things. I guess I'll just keep at it unless someone else starts selling
one soon.

Benj

[Derek Tearne]

Post by Gregory Rochford
Would it do what you want if you plugged the bass with more output
into the jack that can be adjusted, and reduce it's output to
match the lower output bass?

Nope. If it did that I'd be happy. It doesn't.

In 2 in / 1 out mode it only adjusts the level of the single *output*.
So, you have an A/B switch with a master volume - which is no use
really.

--- Derek

[Gregory Rochford]

Post by Derek Tearne

Post by Gregory Rochford
Would it do what you want if you plugged the bass with more output
into the jack that can be adjusted, and reduce it's output to
match the lower output bass?

Nope. If it did that I'd be happy. It doesn't.
In 2 in / 1 out mode it only adjusts the level of the single *output*.
So, you have an A/B switch with a master volume - which is no use
really.

Agreed, useless
best
gr

[Michael Putrino]

Post by Derek Tearne
You see, it turns out, that the level controls only adjust the *output*
levels, so when you have the device in 2 in 1 out mode only *one* of the
levels can be set.

Hi Derek,

If it was real cheap, then you can always re-wire it so that the control
affect the inputs instead of the outputs. That requires a little electronics
knowledge, but not much.... The cost is in the case, parts and labor to
build it. You've got the case and parts. If I'm not mistaken, I think it'll
just take a little of your labor to turn it into what you really wanted.

Keep in mind that making such a change would render the other mode (one
guitar feeding two amps) ineffective...somthing I assume doesn't matter to
you.

Mike

[Michael Putrino]

Post by Michael Putrino

Post by Derek Tearne
You see, it turns out, that the level controls only adjust the *output*
levels, so when you have the device in 2 in 1 out mode only *one* of the
levels can be set.

Hi Derek,
If it was real cheap, then you can always re-wire it so that the control
affect the inputs instead of the outputs. That requires a little
electronics knowledge, but not much.... The cost is in the case, parts and
labor to build it. You've got the case and parts. If I'm not mistaken, I
think it'll just take a little of your labor to turn it into what you
really wanted.
Keep in mind that making such a change would render the other mode (one
guitar feeding two amps) ineffective...somthing I assume doesn't matter to
you.
Mike

Another thing you might try...

If this truly is a passive device, just plug it in backwards. Put it in the
two-amp/one-guitar mode, plug your guitars in the amp jacks, and plug your
amp in the input jack of the box (where the guitar would normally go). The
issue would be if your turn the levels down all the way, you may be
grounding the output of the bass. If it's a passive bass...no problem. If
it's active, maybe a problem...maybe not. Just don't turn the volume down
all the way.

This may or may not work, depending on the way the box is wired... and it
MUST be a passive device.

It may be worth a try...if the device is cheap.

Mike

[Brian Running]

Post by Derek Tearne
For years I've been on a quest for an a/b switching device that allows
one to switch between two very different basses, set the input levels
appropriately and plug the output into an amplifier.

I've been doing this for a long time with a simple Morley A/B switch.
The level controls are on the basses. Am I missing something?

[gigabit]

Post by Derek Tearne
For years I've been on a quest for an a/b switching device that allows
one to switch between two very different basses, set the input levels
appropriately and plug the output into an amplifier.

I know the following is probably what you're doing already, but...

When using two differing output basses, I just check where the input
gain on my preamp brings them to parity, and adjust accordingly on the
fly through the set.
Simple routine, pop out the input to the pre, switch bass, dial in the
level adjustment and plug back into the pre. The SWR 750 I have has a
handle right by the input, so the cable is looped through, and always
right there. Just takes a simple personal sound check to find levels
before the set.

Having another piece of gear to rig, plus the additional cables makes
me more nervous than the above routine. I really prefer one straight
wire to the preamp, and only plug toys in as necessary.

[Derek Tearne]

Post by gigabit
When using two differing output basses, I just check where the input
gain on my preamp brings them to parity, and adjust accordingly on the
fly through the set.
Simple routine, pop out the input to the pre, switch bass, dial in the
level adjustment and plug back into the pre.

Simple, routine and takes at least 30 seconds.

At one point I have to swap between basses and put my bow away within 2
bars.

--- Derek

[b***@iwaynet.net]

Post by Derek Tearne
Simple, routine and takes at least 30 seconds

That and one other thing. I always find that if you have too many
operations, even if "routine" there is always a greater chance for a
screwup.

My desire is like yours Derek. I want a box that takes 2 or maybe up to
4 basses. It's passive (no batteries to go dead even though you do
loose a little level) It has foot switches to go from one bass to
another with an LED that comes on to tell you which basses are on. (A
battery for the LEDs is OK but NOT for the audio circuits!) You can set
up to make it switch (noiselessly!) from one bass to the next when you
tap the given switch OR set it up so that each switch is either ON or
OFF so that any basses that are ON get mixed into the output line. You
have a level control on each input so that you can match the levels of
all basses which in my mind is important because I'd like to have the
volume controls about the same on each bass. (about 80% which is
important because often there is no sound guy so once you set up you'd
like to know what is right by simple knob position because there is no
one easily available to go fix it.

Is this really too much to be asking for?

Benj

[Misifus]

Post by b***@iwaynet.net

Post by Derek Tearne
Simple, routine and takes at least 30 seconds

That and one other thing. I always find that if you have too many
operations, even if "routine" there is always a greater chance for a
screwup.
My desire is like yours Derek. I want a box that takes 2 or maybe up to
4 basses. It's passive (no batteries to go dead even though you do
loose a little level) It has foot switches to go from one bass to
another with an LED that comes on to tell you which basses are on. (A
battery for the LEDs is OK but NOT for the audio circuits!) You can set
up to make it switch (noiselessly!) from one bass to the next when you
tap the given switch OR set it up so that each switch is either ON or
OFF so that any basses that are ON get mixed into the output line. You
have a level control on each input so that you can match the levels of
all basses which in my mind is important because I'd like to have the
volume controls about the same on each bass. (about 80% which is
important because often there is no sound guy so once you set up you'd
like to know what is right by simple knob position because there is no
one easily available to go fix it.
Is this really too much to be asking for?
Benj

This sounds like a really neat device. However, it also sounds like a
device with a limited market. You might persuade someone handy with
circuits and soldering irons to build you one. Perhaps a simple board
with 2 or 4 stomp switches on it and a circuit to quiet the channels as
they are switched. I could see where it would be important to have one
channel defeated before the next came alive. Dunno, but it sounds
doable without too much trouble.

-Raf

[gigabit]

Post by Derek Tearne
Simple, routine and takes at least 30 seconds.

That's true, I just switch up between songs, but it is the physically
switching basses that is the part that takes up the majority of the
time. Can't realistically see getting around that, for my situations.

Post by Derek Tearne
At one point I have to swap between basses and put my bow away within 2
bars.

That would be rather demanding indeed. I hope that's not MM =160...

Just as Devil's Advocate here : Is this switch as important to everyone
else involved as it is to you ? Fellow musicians, audience members?

Post by Derek Tearne
--- Derek
--
Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.manyhands.co.nz/

[Derek Tearne]

Post by gigabit

Post by Derek Tearne
Simple, routine and takes at least 30 seconds.

That's true, I just switch up between songs, but it is the physically
switching basses that is the part that takes up the majority of the
time. Can't realistically see getting around that, for my situations.

Post by Derek Tearne
At one point I have to swap between basses and put my bow away within 2
bars.

That would be rather demanding indeed. I hope that's not MM =160...

130 BPM

Post by gigabit
Just as Devil's Advocate here : Is this switch as important to everyone
else involved as it is to you ? Fellow musicians, audience members?

Loading Image...

This isn't a minor switch, such as from a jazz bass to a precision bass
or fretless to fretted, which may go unnoticed by many - there's a major
change from arco electric upright to fretted electric. I think even the
most oblivious audience member would notice that.

The introduction to the song is in free time, followed by quite a
dramatic change of pace - oh and bagpipes.

Yes, possibly it doesn't matter much to the audience, once the bagpipes
start they don't really 'notice' anything else. I *could* do nothing
for the first minute or so of the song, and just let the keyboards hold
down the drone, but it wouldn't sound, or look, the same. The keyboard
strings and real arco bass complement each other well.

Once the bagpipes come in it really needs to punch along, and the rest
of the band do need the clarity and punch from the electric bass to hold
it together.

There are a couple of other tunes where ideally I'd like to change bass
mid song but there simply isn't time - I'd need a double neck
fretted/electric upright capable of being bowed and I don't think any
such thing exists.

Usually I only have to change basses between tunes and that doesn't take
terribly long.

--- Derek

[blind dog smith]

Derek,

Have you looked at these?:
http://www.d-tar.com/solstice.shtml

Yes, expensive and requires mains power. But, well-built, and available
for non-US power here:
http://www.gollihur.com/kkbass/d-tar.html

Will do what you want, yeah...?.

hth,
scott (have some hokey-pokey for me!!)

[Derek Tearne]

Post by Pavel Semyonov
Derek,
http://www.d-tar.com/solstice.shtml

I didn't know about those!

That does, indeed, do exactly what I want.

A little pricey, but. It is almost exactly the unit I've been looking
for - and a closer fit than the 'bassbone' which is more expensive
again. Hmm, tuner out + footswitchable mute...

I think I've solved tonights problem by adjusting the internal master
volume on my Wal bass so the XLR out doesn't overload the XLR in on my
Acoustic Image amp. It's not an ideal solution though.

The next step is probably to install a DI and phantom power into the
electric upright - largely to solve a different problem - which will
mean I can use both channels on the acoustic image. But one of these
solstice things would be really useful for situations where I didn't
want to take an amp, or a different amp. It even provides phantom
power...

I'll investigate further. Thanks.

It's interesting to note that the pic on Bob Gollihurs site has one
mounted atop an acoustic image amp not dissimilar to mine.

Post by Pavel Semyonov
scott (have some hokey-pokey for me!!)

I will!

--- Derek

[Derek Tearne]

Post by Pavel Semyonov
Derek,
http://www.d-tar.com/solstice.shtml

Well, having mulled this over I came to the conclusion that the specs
were almost exactly what I had worked out I needed and had resolved to
get made for me. Therefore, even though it's more expensive than I
would have liked, I had to check one out.

Although there was no hint of a local dealer - an e-mail to D-Tar
resulted in a phone call from the local distributor.

I now have one in my hot sticky hands and it seems to do exactly what it
says on the tin. <...> I've just been to rehearsal and it worked like a
charm. Both basses sounded clearer and more 'there' than previously -
more importantly the other people in the band *noticed* - which is an
achievement when playing with bagpipes.

It's almost as though the people who designed it had listened to me
grumbling and moaning for the last few years and decided to make
something just for me.

Thanks for the heads up!

--- Derek

[jeffb]

Post by Derek Tearne

Post by Pavel Semyonov
Derek,
http://www.d-tar.com/solstice.shtml

Well, having mulled this over I came to the conclusion that the specs
were almost exactly what I had worked out I needed and had resolved to
get made for me. Therefore, even though it's more expensive than I
would have liked, I had to check one out.
Although there was no hint of a local dealer - an e-mail to D-Tar
resulted in a phone call from the local distributor.
I now have one in my hot sticky hands and it seems to do exactly what it
says on the tin. <...> I've just been to rehearsal and it worked like a
charm. Both basses sounded clearer and more 'there' than previously -
more importantly the other people in the band *noticed* - which is an
achievement when playing with bagpipes.
It's almost as though the people who designed it had listened to me
grumbling and moaning for the last few years and decided to make
something just for me.
Thanks for the heads up!
--- Derek

Looks like a good unit...I'm curious to hear one sometime. The one
bitch I have with though (and with the Raven Labs PMB that I use and
otherwise love) is there's no stereo headphone out. I didn't really
miss it until fairly recently when I incorporated the PMB into a
practice/direct to minidisc recording rig for the hotel room while out
on the road. I got around it using a little headphone amp a friend
built for me but it'd be nice if that feature was built into the
preamp. The hotel room practice thing isn't an unreasonable request
from a piece of pro gear is it?

jeffb

[Derek Tearne]

Post by jeffb
Looks like a good unit...I'm curious to hear one sometime. The one
bitch I have with though (and with the Raven Labs PMB that I use and
otherwise love) is there's no stereo headphone out.

No, there isn't. However with a stereo minijack to 1/4 inch mono
adapter there's easily enough power from the pre-amp output to drive a
small pair of headphones. Not super loud, but probably as loud as I'd
ever want to practice at. I suspect it's nearly as loud as the JHS bass
box I bought specifically for silent practice, but that never sounded
that great. The headphone output on my Phil Jones bass is louder, but
that seems to hiss - I suspect it's faulty but seeing as I've never had
any need or desire to even try it out until now I wouldn't have known
and am not that bothered.

Post by jeffb
The hotel room practice thing isn't an unreasonable request
from a piece of pro gear is it?

No. It's not unreasonable. Especially when this is the kind of piece
of equipment you take on tour *instead of* an amp.

I guess they designed it for people with acoustic instruments to use on
stage, and people with electric instruments practising in hotel rooms
didn't occur to them.

--- Derek

[Todd H.]

Post by Derek Tearne
You see, it turns out, that the level controls only adjust the *output*
levels, so when you have the device in 2 in 1 out mode only *one* of the
levels can be set.

I've only recently jumped into this thread, and may have missed some
expired replies, but doesn't at least one of your two devices have its
own volume control to handle the "relative level control" that you
seek?

[John Shaughnessy]

I just thought of something you could do that would be really cheap:

Get a Whirlwind Selector active A/B box ($50-100), and splice in 100K volume
pots in between the board output and the jack; there's plenty of room in the
case for them. It would take a little soldering and drilling, but it should
work.
--
Lessons, music and more at www.jmsjazz.com

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid,
but most stupid people are conservatives."
- John Stuart Mill

Post by Derek Tearne
For years I've been on a quest for an a/b switching device that allows
one to switch between two very different basses, set the input levels
appropriately and plug the output into an amplifier.
This is necessary as so few bass amplifiers have more than one channel
these days (this is apparently to stop the guitarist plugging in!).
I don't need EQ - in fact this device must *not* colour the sound or
hiss like an angry snake. Oh, and I'd rather it didn't cost the earth -
which is the problem with the BassBone, Lehle cool switch (which is
exactly what I need), or the Boss LS-2 (which is what the AB100 is
inspired by).
So, I was really pleased to see Behringer bring out the AB100. It
appears to have all the features I need, two inputs, two level controls,
coloured LEDs so I can tell which instrument is 'live' on a dark stage.
What could be wrong with it, one asks, it looks perfect.
The little bit of paper that comes with it says "Thank you for showing
your confidence in us by purchasing the BEHRINGER INSTRUMENT/AMP
SELECTOR AB100. This high-quality instrument and amp switch is designed
for both guitar & bass players who use several amps or instruments. The
AB100 allows you to switch between gear noiselessly and instantaneously,
adjusting individual volume settings without coloring the sound of your
instrument".
If it did what this paragraph says I'd be a happy man. However
something in that paragraph is at best misleading.
So, I go into the shop. I ask to try one out. The sales person was
somewhat disparaging about the unit, after all, it is made of plastic -
which was a concern - but in the end it's whether it does the job that
matters.
I say "I want to hear whether it has a hiss like angry snake or not", he
says "Well, I think I can guarantee to demonstrate that hiss".
Imagine our surprise when the device in fact didn't hiss. Furthermore,
it doesn't appear to colour the sound in any way - my subsequent tests
at home have confirmed this. It is as silent as any stomp box I've ever
come across, the channel switching happens with narry a click, or even a
hint of a click.
At this point I'm so astonished at the quality of this device that I cut
short my experimentation and buy it.
This was my mistake. I was so concerned that, like many stomp boxes
before this by many brands, it would hiss or crackle that I forgot to
test the one thing it absolutely had to do - allow independent control
of the input levels. I did twiddle the knobs to see if they crackled -
they didn't - and I did hear the level change on channel A.
Unfortunately, due to time and space constraints I didn't actually plug
two basses into the unit and try setting the levels of each channel.
Of course I did this as soon as I got home.
Imagine my dissapointment when this otherwise astonishingly good pedal
wouldn't let me change the level of the second input.
You see, it turns out, that the level controls only adjust the *output*
levels, so when you have the device in 2 in 1 out mode only *one* of the
levels can be set.
It's only when you read the fine print, in fact it's only when you read
the fine print and deduce what's missing, that it becomes clear that the
levels only affect the *output* level - and that as one of the jack
sockets is both an input and an output - if you're using out B/in 2 as
an input you can only set the level for output A.
Useless.
So, it's back to the shop tomorrow. And back to the drawing board.
It was so very very close to being an excellent device.
Unfortunately it's also a useless device and I feel stupid for assuming
that something would do what it said it would do and what anyone would
reasonably expect it to do.
Maybe I should try a bass bone after all.
--- Derek
--
Many Hands - Trans Cultural Music from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.manyhands.co.nz/

[Michael Putrino]

Post by John Shaughnessy
Get a Whirlwind Selector active A/B box ($50-100), and splice in 100K volume
pots in between the board output and the jack; there's plenty of room in the
case for them. It would take a little soldering and drilling, but it should
work.

Why not just rewire the box he already has? Scrap the one-bass-to-two-amp
mode and rewire the pots to be on the inputs. It can't be that hard...
Well...maybe it can; I haven't seen the unit, but it's worth a look see.

Mike

[John Shaughnessy]

It's an active switcher, so it goes either 2>1 or 1>2. The switching is
controlled by a chip, and most everything is board mounted.

The 2 in/outs look like they go to either side of a stereo jack. so
theoretically, splicing a volume pot in between each would solve the
problem. Theoretically.
--
Lessons, music and more at www.jmsjazz.com

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid,
but most stupid people are conservatives."
- John Stuart Mill

Post by Michael Putrino

Post by John Shaughnessy
Get a Whirlwind Selector active A/B box ($50-100), and splice in 100K volume
pots in between the board output and the jack; there's plenty of room in the
case for them. It would take a little soldering and drilling, but it should
work.

Why not just rewire the box he already has? Scrap the one-bass-to-two-amp
mode and rewire the pots to be on the inputs. It can't be that hard...
Well...maybe it can; I haven't seen the unit, but it's worth a look see.
Mike

[Michael Putrino]

Post by John Shaughnessy
It's an active switcher, so it goes either 2>1 or 1>2. The switching is
controlled by a chip, and most everything is board mounted.
The 2 in/outs look like they go to either side of a stereo jack. so
theoretically, splicing a volume pot in between each would solve the
problem. Theoretically.
--
Lessons, music and more at www.jmsjazz.com
Conservatives are not necessarily stupid,
but most stupid people are conservatives."
- John Stuart Mill

Or just moving the wiring of the existing pots and jumpering out (or
replacing them with fixed resistors) where they used to be...again
theoretically... ;-)