Engelhardt M3 Upright Bass

[Mike]

Hello....I found an Engelhardt M3 Upright Bass for sale locally (in
Atlanta) on craigslist. It's a 1/4 size. The ad says the following:

Engelhardt 1/4 size upright bass in very good condition. Honey blonde
color. Nice string set up. around 8" shorter than a standard bass. Not
as much acoustic volume as a full size, but a pickup would make them
equal.

The asking price is $450. I gather from my research that it is for
beginners. Any opinions on whether this might make a good starter URB
for someone who is an experienced electric player? Or should I save my
money and keep looking for a 3/4 or full-size URB?

Thanks a lot...

Mike

[Bassman]

You would want to start out on a 3/4 size bass. That is what most people
play. The 1/4 size would be for a young person.
--
David DeVos - JUST the bass player
http://www.amyyoung.org
http://www.tallmadgemill.com/rcmusic.html
http://kf8ql.homestead.com

Post by Mike
Hello....I found an Engelhardt M3 Upright Bass for sale locally (in
Engelhardt 1/4 size upright bass in very good condition. Honey blonde
color. Nice string set up. around 8" shorter than a standard bass. Not
as much acoustic volume as a full size, but a pickup would make them
equal.
The asking price is $450. I gather from my research that it is for
beginners. Any opinions on whether this might make a good starter URB
for someone who is an experienced electric player? Or should I save my
money and keep looking for a 3/4 or full-size URB?
Thanks a lot...
Mike

[John Shaughnessy]

It might make a cool piccolo bass though. 1/4 size is pretty close to a
cello.
--
Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm

Speak out, you got to speak out against the madness...But don't, no don't
try to get yourself elected;
If you do, you had better cut your hair.
-CSNY "Long Time Gone"

Post by Bassman
You would want to start out on a 3/4 size bass. That is what most people
play. The 1/4 size would be for a young person.
--
David DeVos - JUST the bass player
http://www.amyyoung.org
http://www.tallmadgemill.com/rcmusic.html
http://kf8ql.homestead.com

Post by Mike
Hello....I found an Engelhardt M3 Upright Bass for sale locally (in
Engelhardt 1/4 size upright bass in very good condition. Honey blonde
color. Nice string set up. around 8" shorter than a standard bass. Not
as much acoustic volume as a full size, but a pickup would make them
equal.
The asking price is $450. I gather from my research that it is for
beginners. Any opinions on whether this might make a good starter URB
for someone who is an experienced electric player? Or should I save my
money and keep looking for a 3/4 or full-size URB?
Thanks a lot...
Mike

[Boom]

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:58:25 GMT, "John Shaughnessy"

Post by Mike
Hello....I found an Engelhardt M3 Upright Bass for sale locally (in
Engelhardt 1/4 size upright bass in very good condition. Honey blonde
color. Nice string set up. around 8" shorter than a standard bass. Not
as much acoustic volume as a full size, but a pickup would make them
equal.
The asking price is $450. I gather from my research that it is for
beginners. Any opinions on whether this might make a good starter URB
for someone who is an experienced electric player? Or should I save my
money and keep looking for a 3/4 or full-size URB?

That's a good question. Engelhardt is a pretty reliable brand, and I
doubt you'll ever find another one that cheap. On the other hand,
it's definitely a whole new ballgame with the smaller size. I went
with a 3/4 for my first bass and I'm glad I did, but it might very
well make an excellent starter bass.

One thing is for sure, though...you definitely don't want full-size.
Those things are gigantic. They have a great sound, but oh so hard to
deal with. My advice is to go play it and decide for yourself.

[Mike]

Post by Boom
My advice is to go play it and decide for yourself.

I was afraid you were gonna say that, Boom ;->

I emailed the seller and the M3 is still available (the ad was posted
on March 1). I'm going to try to arrange a meeting with him (or her)
to take a look at it. Sadly I don't know a lot on the topic, so I will
have to ask the seller tons of questions. I am thinking about it like
this....I have a 1 year old girl who I would like to introduce to many
musical instruments as she grows. Maybe I get this now, get some URB
chops for myself and move up to a 3/4 in a couple years and save the M3
for when she is old enough.

Then the real problem becomes....how do you interest a child in
something that you are interested in. A co-worker of mine who I posed
that question to said "forbid her from playing bass....that ought to do
it...but whatever you do...don't tell her what you want her to do"
This ought to be good.....oy vey!

Thanks for the advice.

Mike

P.S. I found a review of an M3:

"Nothing wrong with the bass, but there's a problem with the
description. This is NOT a "step-up" quality instrument. This is an
affordable, durable, low-end laminated 1/4-size instrument, perfect for
elementary to junior-high school orchestras and rental programs. Also
good for petite jazz players. Did somebody perhaps put the wrong
"product overview" info with this bass? It's misleading to imply that
it's better-than-beginner or "transition into a professional model".
And it's unfair not to mention that it's all laminated."

[Ken Lloyd]

How do you get a child interested?

It either has to be fun for them or cool (as in cultural pressure).
Hopefully fun will carry the day.

Ken
www.KennyLloyd.com

Post by Mike

Post by Boom
My advice is to go play it and decide for yourself.

I was afraid you were gonna say that, Boom ;->
I emailed the seller and the M3 is still available (the ad was posted
on March 1). I'm going to try to arrange a meeting with him (or her)
to take a look at it. Sadly I don't know a lot on the topic, so I will
have to ask the seller tons of questions. I am thinking about it like
this....I have a 1 year old girl who I would like to introduce to many
musical instruments as she grows. Maybe I get this now, get some URB
chops for myself and move up to a 3/4 in a couple years and save the M3
for when she is old enough.
Then the real problem becomes....how do you interest a child in
something that you are interested in. A co-worker of mine who I posed
that question to said "forbid her from playing bass....that ought to do
it...but whatever you do...don't tell her what you want her to do"
This ought to be good.....oy vey!
Thanks for the advice.
Mike
"Nothing wrong with the bass, but there's a problem with the
description. This is NOT a "step-up" quality instrument. This is an
affordable, durable, low-end laminated 1/4-size instrument, perfect for
elementary to junior-high school orchestras and rental programs. Also
good for petite jazz players. Did somebody perhaps put the wrong
"product overview" info with this bass? It's misleading to imply that
it's better-than-beginner or "transition into a professional model".
And it's unfair not to mention that it's all laminated."

[Boom]

Post by Mike
I emailed the seller and the M3 is still available (the ad was posted
on March 1). I'm going to try to arrange a meeting with him (or her)
to take a look at it. Sadly I don't know a lot on the topic, so I will
have to ask the seller tons of questions. I am thinking about it like
this....I have a 1 year old girl who I would like to introduce to many
musical instruments as she grows. Maybe I get this now, get some URB
chops for myself and move up to a 3/4 in a couple years and save the M3
for when she is old enough.

It's quite possible you will like it. There's a psychobilly band from
England called Necromantix, and their bass player plays what looks to
be at the most a 1/2 size bass. Of course, he's doing a lot of
lightning fast slapping and has really loose nylon strings on it, so
that may not be your thing. The body is in the shape of a coffin, so
you may not want to get one like that, either. At any rate, its
doubtful that you would lose money if you decide to sell it in the
future. They sell new for around $900.

Post by Mike
Then the real problem becomes....how do you interest a child in
something that you are interested in. A co-worker of mine who I posed
that question to said "forbid her from playing bass....that ought to do
it...but whatever you do...don't tell her what you want her to do"
This ought to be good.....oy vey!

How do you interest a child in something you're interested in? Sorry,
but you can't. Eithe she'll be interested or she won't. I wouldn't
go out of my way to get her to play. She might pick it up on her own,
she might not. Funny how kids grow up and get minds of their own,
huh? My kids want nothing to do with music, and aside from my mom
knowing a couple decent tunes on piano, I have been the only one in my
family interested in music.

Post by Mike
"Nothing wrong with the bass, but there's a problem with the
description. This is NOT a "step-up" quality instrument. This is an

Whoever wrote that is wrong. It most definitely is a step-up quality
instrument. Engelhardts are made much better than the instruments
below them, which are made in China and are sold in chains like Sam
Ash and on Ebay. The M3 is a student model for sure, but it's a
well-made student model. Having said that, there are some Chinese
basses that are pretty good and I wouldn't rule them out just because
they're Chinese.

Post by Mike
affordable, durable, low-end laminated 1/4-size instrument, perfect for
elementary to junior-high school orchestras and rental programs. Also
good for petite jazz players. Did somebody perhaps put the wrong
"product overview" info with this bass? It's misleading to imply that
it's better-than-beginner or "transition into a professional model".
And it's unfair not to mention that it's all laminated."

Like you can get a carved wood bass for $900! The guy who wrote that
review is a dunce. What was he expecting? A Juzek?

[David Brillhart]

Post by Boom

Post by Mike
"Nothing wrong with the bass, but there's a problem with the
description. This is NOT a "step-up" quality instrument. This is an

Whoever wrote that is wrong. It most definitely is a step-up quality
instrument. Engelhardts are made much better than the instruments
below them, which are made in China and are sold in chains like Sam
Ash and on Ebay. The M3 is a student model for sure, but it's a
well-made student model. Having said that, there are some Chinese
basses that are pretty good and I wouldn't rule them out just because
they're Chinese.

With my limited knowledge, I'd have to second what Boom said. I've seen
some "pro" players (in the sense they made a living at it) playing
Englehardts. Actually, Englehardt bought Kay's bass operations, and for
most purposes these basses are very similar/identical to Kays. I've
played a few of the models a step up from this one, and they are a LOT
better that cheaper basses such as Palantino, Cremona, etc. (this is
what I have).

You have to keep in mind that uprights aren't priced like bass guitars.
What an upright "snob" would consider an acceptable starter instrument
might be $2000 - $3000. I think a lot of people consider the
Englehardts as the "minimium" starter level bass. I think you could get
one and play it for many year and be fine. If you because a pro
orchestra dude, you'd want to step up to a $10,000 bass or something.
I've learned that rockabilly and psychobilly type players seem to be
more accepting of cheap basses than jazz and classical guys.

In my limited knowledge, I'd have to say the 1/4 size is a bad idea. I
saw one of these M3s on "scratch and dent" for pretty cheap, and was
really considering it. I talked to the guys on the www.talkbass.com
doublebass forum, and they gave me many good reasons not to go with it.
Later I was considering a 1/2 size, and didn't do it for similar
reasons. I think learning on a non 3/4 size bass will cause you
problems. He is an interesting dude - he has a fold up upright as well.
I think he's sort of outside the bounds of what most people consider
normal on upright. To me that is a GREAT thing, but he is an exception.
If you are interested in rockabilly - you will find them more tolerent
of unusual basses/techniques, etc. than other genre players.

I'mm actually reasonably happy with the CCB (cheap Chinese bass) I
have. It is crappy in any number of ways, but it's okay. Right now I
have the tailpiece held on with coathanger wire. I have done some other
redneck engineering techniques on it as well. I would say you would do
better to get a 3/4 CCB rather than the M3 - even though the M3 is
better quality. The thing to realize is the "set up" on a upright is
VERY non-trivial, and can cost $100- $300. Also, realize that a CCB
like the one I have can fall apart for no reason. I've heard horror
stories of them just self destructing. I also have heard of plenty of
guys that get one set up, and play them weekly in bands with no
problems. I think you just play the odds with a cheap bass.

I don't think upright is an instrument for the faint of heart or
thrifty (Or certainly not both at once).


Dave

[Gary Rosen]

Post by Boom

Post by Mike
I emailed the seller and the M3 is still available (the ad was posted
on March 1). I'm going to try to arrange a meeting with him (or her)
to take a look at it. Sadly I don't know a lot on the topic, so I will
have to ask the seller tons of questions. I am thinking about it like
this....I have a 1 year old girl who I would like to introduce to many
musical instruments as she grows. Maybe I get this now, get some URB
chops for myself and move up to a 3/4 in a couple years and save the M3
for when she is old enough.

It's quite possible you will like it. There's a psychobilly band from
England called Necromantix, and their bass player plays what looks to
be at the most a 1/2 size bass. Of course, he's doing a lot of
lightning fast slapping and has really loose nylon strings on it, so
that may not be your thing. The body is in the shape of a coffin, so
you may not want to get one like that, either. At any rate, its
doubtful that you would lose money if you decide to sell it in the
future. They sell new for around $900.

Post by Mike
Then the real problem becomes....how do you interest a child in
something that you are interested in. A co-worker of mine who I posed
that question to said "forbid her from playing bass....that ought to do
it...but whatever you do...don't tell her what you want her to do"
This ought to be good.....oy vey!

How do you interest a child in something you're interested in? Sorry,
but you can't. Eithe she'll be interested or she won't. I wouldn't
go out of my way to get her to play. She might pick it up on her own,
she might not. Funny how kids grow up and get minds of their own,
huh? My kids want nothing to do with music, and aside from my mom
knowing a couple decent tunes on piano, I have been the only one in my
family interested in music.

Post by Mike
"Nothing wrong with the bass, but there's a problem with the
description. This is NOT a "step-up" quality instrument. This is an

Whoever wrote that is wrong. It most definitely is a step-up quality
instrument. Engelhardts are made much better than the instruments
below them, which are made in China and are sold in chains like Sam
Ash and on Ebay. The M3 is a student model for sure, but it's a
well-made student model. Having said that, there are some Chinese
basses that are pretty good and I wouldn't rule them out just because
they're Chinese.

Post by Mike
affordable, durable, low-end laminated 1/4-size instrument, perfect for
elementary to junior-high school orchestras and rental programs. Also
good for petite jazz players. Did somebody perhaps put the wrong
"product overview" info with this bass? It's misleading to imply that
it's better-than-beginner or "transition into a professional model".
And it's unfair not to mention that it's all laminated."

Like you can get a carved wood bass for $900! The guy who wrote that
review is a dunce. What was he expecting? A Juzek?

Boom, I think the knock on the bass was not that it was an Englehardt,
but that it is 1/4 size. Now I've never played one (1/4 size that is) so I
can't speak from personal experience, but they may be saying that it
is so much smaller than even a "regular" (3/4 or at least 5/8) bass that
it doesn't really help you transition from, say, electric to upright.
Someone said the fingerboard length was 8" shorter than that of a 3/4
bass. That would make it as short or even shorter than an electric
bass (3/4 upright usually has 41" scale, standard electric is 34").

- Gary Rosen

[Boom]

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 08:52:39 -0700, "Gary Rosen"

Post by Gary Rosen

Post by Boom
Like you can get a carved wood bass for $900! The guy who wrote that
review is a dunce. What was he expecting? A Juzek?

Boom, I think the knock on the bass was not that it was an Englehardt,
but that it is 1/4 size. Now I've never played one (1/4 size that is) so I
can't speak from personal experience, but they may be saying that it
is so much smaller than even a "regular" (3/4 or at least 5/8) bass that
it doesn't really help you transition from, say, electric to upright.
Someone said the fingerboard length was 8" shorter than that of a 3/4
bass. That would make it as short or even shorter than an electric
bass (3/4 upright usually has 41" scale, standard electric is 34").

You make a good point, sort of, but the reviewer did say that he
thought it was unfair for them not to say it was a laminated bass. So
yes, in my book, that makes him a dunce ;)

But if a 1/4 size bass only has a 33" scale, then I would have to take
back my advice and say skip it. It's bound to cause problems when you
move up to a 3/4.

[Mike]

Thanks for all the viewpoints and opinions. I think I'll pass on this
one. I really wasn't in the market for an URB just yet, so this
purchase may have been in haste and on a lark. But the price was
appealing.

Anyhoo....thanks again for the responses....and on a weekend, too!
Remind me to pay you guys double-time!

Mike