EMG Geezer Butler P Pickup

[JimmyM]

So I had expressed a bit of interest in the new EMG Geezer Butler P
pickup to a friend who works at EMG, and I came home Sunday from my
band's two weeks of cruising the Caribbean and found a box with two of
them on my kitchen table!

It was designed using the pickup in the great Bobby Vega's pre-CBS
Precision as a benchmark...1960, I believe, is the year his bass was
made. Geezer was never happy with the pickups in his Laklands and he
went through a bunch of them, including some well-known boutique
brands, but these he ended up loving the EMG's so he lent his name to
them. They're 100% passive and designed to sound vintage, although
they still have the trademarks of EMG design, such as being sealed in
resin and quick connectors.

A couple days later, I installed one in my 09 AmStd Precision, but not
before I made audio clips comparing it and the 62 Original I put in it
last year. Both pickups are full-on treble and were recorded through
my A-Designs REDDI:

https://soundcloud.com/jimmy-miller-bass/62orig

https://soundcloud.com/jimmy-miller-bass/gzr

I'm more interested in what you guys think and I'll leave my
editorializing out for now, but suffice it to say that I've never
heard a modern pickup do what the Geezer does and I'm now endorsing
EMG. Did first gig with it yesterday, and I was blown away at how
well its voicing works in a band context. But I'd never use a pickup
I didn't like just because someone gave it to me. Not like I can't
afford a passive pickup.

The Geezers come in a P and PJ set, with the J pickup being humbucking
and voiced to balance better tonally and volume-wise with the P. They
should be ready to ship in a few days and they've been taking
pre-orders for a month. And they're not ready to come out yet, but
EMG is also coming out with a vintage style J set, also using Bobby
Vega's pre-CBS Fenders as a benchmark.

Very stoked to be endorsing EMG Pickups after 30 years of using their
products and having to pay full price for them ;)

[fourstring]

So I had expressed a bit of interest in the new EMG Geezer Butler P

Post by JimmyM
pickup to a friend who works at EMG, and I came home Sunday from my
band's two weeks of cruising the Caribbean and found a box with two of
them on my kitchen table!
It was designed using the pickup in the great Bobby Vega's pre-CBS
Precision as a benchmark...1960, I believe, is the year his bass was
made. Geezer was never happy with the pickups in his Laklands and he
went through a bunch of them, including some well-known boutique
brands, but these he ended up loving the EMG's so he lent his name to
them. They're 100% passive and designed to sound vintage, although
they still have the trademarks of EMG design, such as being sealed in
resin and quick connectors.
A couple days later, I installed one in my 09 AmStd Precision, but not
before I made audio clips comparing it and the 62 Original I put in it
last year. Both pickups are full-on treble and were recorded through
https://soundcloud.com/jimmy-miller-bass/62orig
https://soundcloud.com/jimmy-miller-bass/gzr
I'm more interested in what you guys think and I'll leave my
editorializing out for now, but suffice it to say that I've never
heard a modern pickup do what the Geezer does and I'm now endorsing
EMG. Did first gig with it yesterday, and I was blown away at how
well its voicing works in a band context. But I'd never use a pickup
I didn't like just because someone gave it to me. Not like I can't
afford a passive pickup.
The Geezers come in a P and PJ set, with the J pickup being humbucking
and voiced to balance better tonally and volume-wise with the P. They
should be ready to ship in a few days and they've been taking
pre-orders for a month. And they're not ready to come out yet, but
EMG is also coming out with a vintage style J set, also using Bobby
Vega's pre-CBS Fenders as a benchmark.
Very stoked to be endorsing EMG Pickups after 30 years of using their
products and having to pay full price for them ;)

It's a shame (in some ways) that I've retired because as the distributor
of EMG in the UK I got to meet many of the endorsees at NAMM etc
so we would certainly have hoisted one together!
Enjoy the new p/ups.
Best

-C-

[Derek Tearne]

Post by JimmyM
I'm more interested in what you guys think and I'll leave my
editorializing out for now, but suffice it to say that I've never
heard a modern pickup do what the Geezer does and I'm now endorsing
EMG.

I think the EMG's are incredibly quiet...

That's mostly because sound cloud won't play the second clip for me,
unfortunately.

--- Derek

[Derek Tearne]

Post by Derek Tearne

Post by JimmyM
I'm more interested in what you guys think and I'll leave my
editorializing out for now, but suffice it to say that I've never
heard a modern pickup do what the Geezer does and I'm now endorsing
EMG.

I think the EMG's are incredibly quiet...
That's mostly because sound cloud won't play the second clip for me,
unfortunately.

Eventually the second clip worked for me, although the first didn't at
that point so I couldn't really compare directly, but the EMG's
definitely sounded gruntier - I think I'd pick those in a blind test.

--- Derek

[JimmyM]

Post by Derek Tearne

Post by Derek Tearne

Post by JimmyM
I'm more interested in what you guys think and I'll leave my
editorializing out for now, but suffice it to say that I've never
heard a modern pickup do what the Geezer does and I'm now endorsing
EMG.

I think the EMG's are incredibly quiet...
That's mostly because sound cloud won't play the second clip for me,
unfortunately.

Eventually the second clip worked for me, although the first didn't at
that point so I couldn't really compare directly, but the EMG's
definitely sounded gruntier - I think I'd pick those in a blind test.

Thank you for that input, Derek. Gruntier is a good word, but I'd
also add "prettier" in there as well. Even with all the grunt, I kept
thinking, "Darn pretty sound, too." The mid response is magical in
the Geezer. Doesn't come across as harsh or boxy at all, but it keeps
me right in the mix with clarity of tone and balls. By far the best
Precision tone I've ever gotten out of a Precision besides a couple
pre-CBS ones I played years and years ago.

[Brian Running]

Post by JimmyM
Thank you for that input, Derek. Gruntier is a good word, but I'd
also add "prettier" in there as well. Even with all the grunt, I kept
thinking, "Darn pretty sound, too." The mid response is magical in
the Geezer. Doesn't come across as harsh or boxy at all, but it keeps
me right in the mix with clarity of tone and balls. By far the best
Precision tone I've ever gotten out of a Precision besides a couple
pre-CBS ones I played years and years ago.

I listened to them on Talkbass. Definitely a noticeable difference.
Both sound good. The original pickups are more uniform in response over
the entire range of the bass, the Geezers emphasize the lower end and
lose it as you go up the scale.

This is one of those cases where your expectations cause you to perceive
"different" as "better." They are definitely different, but neither is
better unless you really, really want one to be "better." In any event,
the differences between the two will be absolutely unnoticeable in
actual use, they will be overwhelmed by a multitude of other factors.

If you need new pickups, the Geezers would be a good choice.

[JimmyM]

On Sun, 02 Mar 2014 08:40:21 -0600, Brian Running

Post by Brian Running

Post by JimmyM
Thank you for that input, Derek. Gruntier is a good word, but I'd
also add "prettier" in there as well. Even with all the grunt, I kept
thinking, "Darn pretty sound, too." The mid response is magical in
the Geezer. Doesn't come across as harsh or boxy at all, but it keeps
me right in the mix with clarity of tone and balls. By far the best
Precision tone I've ever gotten out of a Precision besides a couple
pre-CBS ones I played years and years ago.

I listened to them on Talkbass. Definitely a noticeable difference.
Both sound good. The original pickups are more uniform in response over
the entire range of the bass, the Geezers emphasize the lower end and
lose it as you go up the scale.

I don't hear it that way, but if that's the case, then it's because
the placement wasn't perfected yet. Certainly doesn't come across
that way with a band.

Post by Brian Running
This is one of those cases where your expectations cause you to perceive
"different" as "better." They are definitely different, but neither is
better unless you really, really want one to be "better." In any event,
the differences between the two will be absolutely unnoticeable in
actual use, they will be overwhelmed by a multitude of other factors.

Not according to what I heard. Night and day difference in a band
context. Really! I wouldn't shit you guys!

Post by Brian Running
If you need new pickups, the Geezers would be a good choice.

They're my only choice now ;)

[JimmyM]

On Sun, 02 Mar 2014 08:40:21 -0600, Brian Running

Post by Brian Running
In any event,
the differences between the two will be absolutely unnoticeable in
actual use, they will be overwhelmed by a multitude of other factors.

Had to return to this statement for a bit, not to pick on you or
anything, but because I've heard this all my life and have even said
it a handful of times before I figured out that it wasn't really true
;)

When I was playing a tube Ampeg in the 80's, people told me I should
use solid state because it was better, easier to maintain, and nobody
would notice the difference in a band context. But -I- noticed. They
told me the same thing in 2008 when I went back to tube Ampegs...but
by then I had a couple solid state amps to compare them to...and I did
compare them on gigs, and not only did I notice the difference, so did
many others, including those in my band, the various soundmen I work
with, and a few folks in the audience. Doesn't stop me from using
solid state sometimes when heavier tube amps aren't practical, but
more often than not I'm using tubes.

Same thing happened when I got a REDDI for my DI. I was told the
differences would get eaten up in a live context and I was better off
sticking with the VT Bass. They couldn't have been more wrong about
that, either. The VT's really good for a $180 pedal, but I could
easily tell the compression it added and the richness of tone that I
got with the REDDI, and this was whether I was playing a small rec
center with a cabs-on-sticks PA or a 10,000 seat arena with a state of
the art line array.

Now, will the audiences be able to pick up on these differences?
Maybe not on the whole, but I know that some can because they've made
comments to me about it. But that never enters my decision process
anyway. It's -my- job to care about how I sound, not theirs. And I
don't do lowest common denominators. I always play to the smartest
and most astute people in our crowds. If I can hear a diference, I
assume others can, too. What idiot can't tell the difference between
a boombox and the control room in a major studio?

That isn't to say you can't get a great sound with cheaper gear. I
love cheap gear when it sounds good. But if the audience can't tell,
why don't we all just get First Act starter kits from Wal Mart? Why?
Because the audience can tell ;)

[Les Cargill]

Post by JimmyM
On Sun, 02 Mar 2014 08:40:21 -0600, Brian Running

Post by Brian Running
In any event,
the differences between the two will be absolutely unnoticeable in
actual use, they will be overwhelmed by a multitude of other factors.

Had to return to this statement for a bit, not to pick on you or
anything, but because I've heard this all my life and have even said
it a handful of times before I figured out that it wasn't really true
;)
When I was playing a tube Ampeg in the 80's, people told me I should
use solid state because it was better, easier to maintain, and nobody
would notice the difference in a band context.

Yep. Although people were using SVTs back then, too. People were into
solid state *everything*. Listen to the guitars
on Rush's "Signals" ermahgerd.... thin, reedy, badly distorted...

I was using an Acoustic 370 through a Sunn w/ 4x15"s and people
thought it sounded good, but a 370 is basically a tunable distortion
box. I kept it out of the dirt mostly.

Post by JimmyM
But -I- noticed. They
told me the same thing in 2008 when I went back to tube Ampegs...but
by then I had a couple solid state amps to compare them to...and I did
compare them on gigs, and not only did I notice the difference, so did
many others, including those in my band, the various soundmen I work
with, and a few folks in the audience. Doesn't stop me from using
solid state sometimes when heavier tube amps aren't practical, but
more often than not I'm using tubes.

You are in very good company. But when I hear a tube amp on bass with me
playing thru it, I hear the amp, and not me.

If I had more time to listen to it, maybe I'd change my mind. It
came off as a distraction last time. I'm fully adapted to SS. An SVT, to
me, does not have the ability to do Really Big Round Pedal Tones.
I can *abuse* eq with solid state.

they sound really good, though.

Post by JimmyM
Same thing happened when I got a REDDI for my DI. I was told the
differences would get eaten up in a live context and I was better off
sticking with the VT Bass. They couldn't have been more wrong about
that, either.

Choice of DI is absolutely critical for live, so yes yes.

Post by JimmyM
The VT's really good for a $180 pedal, but I could
easily tell the compression it added and the richness of tone that I
got with the REDDI, and this was whether I was playing a small rec
center with a cabs-on-sticks PA or a 10,000 seat arena with a state of
the art line array.

It'd be interesting to compare/contrast that with a good, hi-Z SS DI.
the Dee-Eye RedEye comes to mind... although it may be better on
acoustic instruments than electric bass.

The REDDI looks to be a heck of a product, though - and a tube at the
input jack makes a lot of difference.

Not to knock the VT Bass... just dunno. I know Ampeg has known how to
make a bass preamp - the rackmount ones were great. Wish I had one.

Post by JimmyM
Now, will the audiences be able to pick up on these differences?
Maybe not on the whole, but I know that some can because they've made
comments to me about it. But that never enters my decision process
anyway. It's -my- job to care about how I sound, not theirs. And I
don't do lowest common denominators. I always play to the smartest
and most astute people in our crowds. If I can hear a diference, I
assume others can, too. What idiot can't tell the difference between
a boombox and the control room in a major studio?
That isn't to say you can't get a great sound with cheaper gear. I
love cheap gear when it sounds good. But if the audience can't tell,
why don't we all just get First Act starter kits from Wal Mart? Why?
Because the audience can tell ;)

[JimmyM]

On Sun, 02 Mar 2014 20:08:24 -0600, Les Cargill

Post by Les Cargill

Post by JimmyM
On Sun, 02 Mar 2014 08:40:21 -0600, Brian Running
When I was playing a tube Ampeg in the 80's, people told me I should
use solid state because it was better, easier to maintain, and nobody
would notice the difference in a band context.

Yep. Although people were using SVTs back then, too. People were into
solid state *everything*. Listen to the guitars
on Rush's "Signals" ermahgerd.... thin, reedy, badly distorted...

Ya, he was into GK amps back then, wasn't he?

Post by Les Cargill
I was using an Acoustic 370 through a Sunn w/ 4x15"s and people
thought it sounded good, but a 370 is basically a tunable distortion
box. I kept it out of the dirt mostly.

Only heard the 370 through the 301 cab myself. Liked it a lot till I
heard an Ampeg rig ;)

Post by Les Cargill
You are in very good company. But when I hear a tube amp on bass with me
playing thru it, I hear the amp, and not me.
If I had more time to listen to it, maybe I'd change my mind. It
came off as a distraction last time. I'm fully adapted to SS. An SVT, to
me, does not have the ability to do Really Big Round Pedal Tones.
I can *abuse* eq with solid state.
they sound really good, though.

Yes they do, and I have no problem hearing me or getting big pedal
tones with a tube amp. Tube amps sound most like me, and SS amps
sound most like you to you. It can actually work that way ;)

Post by Les Cargill
It'd be interesting to compare/contrast that with a good, hi-Z SS DI.
the Dee-Eye RedEye comes to mind... although it may be better on
acoustic instruments than electric bass.

First I've seen of them.

Post by Les Cargill
The REDDI looks to be a heck of a product, though - and a tube at the
input jack makes a lot of difference.

As well as the giant iron output transformer. That's really the
secret sauce of tube amps, and that's why I like the REDDI more than
any other DI or pre I've tried.

Post by Les Cargill
Not to knock the VT Bass... just dunno. I know Ampeg has known how to
make a bass preamp - the rackmount ones were great. Wish I had one.

Ya, I'd like an SVP-CL. Great pre. Unfortunately, nobody bought
Ampeg pres when they had them and they all got discontinued.

[Les Cargill]

Post by JimmyM
On Sun, 02 Mar 2014 20:08:24 -0600, Les Cargill

Post by Les Cargill

Post by JimmyM
On Sun, 02 Mar 2014 08:40:21 -0600, Brian Running
When I was playing a tube Ampeg in the 80's, people told me I should
use solid state because it was better, easier to maintain, and nobody
would notice the difference in a band context.

Yep. Although people were using SVTs back then, too. People were into
solid state *everything*. Listen to the guitars
on Rush's "Signals" ermahgerd.... thin, reedy, badly distorted...

Ya, he was into GK amps back then, wasn't he?

Not sure. It was awful, whatever it was. plus bad digital, and yuck.

Post by JimmyM

Post by Les Cargill
I was using an Acoustic 370 through a Sunn w/ 4x15"s and people
thought it sounded good, but a 370 is basically a tunable distortion
box. I kept it out of the dirt mostly.

Only heard the 370 through the 301 cab myself. Liked it a lot till I
heard an Ampeg rig ;)

Post by Les Cargill
You are in very good company. But when I hear a tube amp on bass with me
playing thru it, I hear the amp, and not me.
If I had more time to listen to it, maybe I'd change my mind. It
came off as a distraction last time. I'm fully adapted to SS. An SVT, to
me, does not have the ability to do Really Big Round Pedal Tones.
I can *abuse* eq with solid state.
they sound really good, though.

Yes they do, and I have no problem hearing me or getting big pedal
tones with a tube amp. Tube amps sound most like me, and SS amps
sound most like you to you. It can actually work that way ;)

Indeed!

Post by JimmyM

Post by Les Cargill
It'd be interesting to compare/contrast that with a good, hi-Z SS DI.
the Dee-Eye RedEye comes to mind... although it may be better on
acoustic instruments than electric bass.

First I've seen of them.

Post by Les Cargill
The REDDI looks to be a heck of a product, though - and a tube at the
input jack makes a lot of difference.

As well as the giant iron output transformer. That's really the
secret sauce of tube amps,

I'm not sure what that has to do with a DI, though - big iron
on a tube amp does pretty specific things for the tube amp, like
improve headroom.

For a DI, an overspeced switching supply should be indistinguishable
form a massive linear or a battery.

Post by JimmyM
and that's why I like the REDDI more than
any other DI or pre I've tried.

Post by Les Cargill
Not to knock the VT Bass... just dunno. I know Ampeg has known how to
make a bass preamp - the rackmount ones were great. Wish I had one.

Ya, I'd like an SVP-CL. Great pre. Unfortunately, nobody bought
Ampeg pres when they had them and they all got discontinued.

Yep.

[JimmyM]

On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 12:31:05 -0600, Les Cargill

Post by Les Cargill

Post by JimmyM
On Sun, 02 Mar 2014 20:08:24 -0600, Les Cargill

Post by Les Cargill
The REDDI looks to be a heck of a product, though - and a tube at the
input jack makes a lot of difference.

As well as the giant iron output transformer. That's really the
secret sauce of tube amps,

I'm not sure what that has to do with a DI, though - big iron
on a tube amp does pretty specific things for the tube amp, like
improve headroom.
For a DI, an overspeced switching supply should be indistinguishable
form a massive linear or a battery.

Output transformer, not power. It does have a torroid power
transformer in it, though. And yes, it does increase headroom. I can
turn the REDDI's level up all the way and it won't make distortion on
its own. It's really a tube amp in DI form.

[Les Cargill]

Post by JimmyM
On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 12:31:05 -0600, Les Cargill

Post by Les Cargill

Post by JimmyM
On Sun, 02 Mar 2014 20:08:24 -0600, Les Cargill

Post by Les Cargill
The REDDI looks to be a heck of a product, though - and a tube at the
input jack makes a lot of difference.

As well as the giant iron output transformer. That's really the
secret sauce of tube amps,

I'm not sure what that has to do with a DI, though - big iron
on a tube amp does pretty specific things for the tube amp, like
improve headroom.
For a DI, an overspeced switching supply should be indistinguishable
form a massive linear or a battery.

Output transformer, not power.

Ah. Okay - that'll definitely matter. I would not have thought about the
hi-z side needing one. <checks specs> - it has a lower 600 ohm
output. That actually makes some sense.

Post by JimmyM
It does have a torroid power
transformer in it, though. And yes, it does increase headroom. I can
turn the REDDI's level up all the way and it won't make distortion on
its own. It's really a tube amp in DI form.

Huh.

--
Les Cargill

[Les Cargill]

Post by Brian Running

Post by JimmyM
Thank you for that input, Derek. Gruntier is a good word, but I'd
also add "prettier" in there as well. Even with all the grunt, I kept
thinking, "Darn pretty sound, too." The mid response is magical in
the Geezer. Doesn't come across as harsh or boxy at all, but it keeps
me right in the mix with clarity of tone and balls. By far the best
Precision tone I've ever gotten out of a Precision besides a couple
pre-CBS ones I played years and years ago.

I listened to them on Talkbass. Definitely a noticeable difference.
Both sound good. The original pickups are more uniform in response over
the entire range of the bass, the Geezers emphasize the lower end and
lose it as you go up the scale.
This is one of those cases where your expectations cause you to perceive
"different" as "better." They are definitely different, but neither is
better unless you really, really want one to be "better."

I would say I'd have to EQ the Butler pickups less in a mix than
the stock P. IMO.

Post by Brian Running
In any event,
the differences between the two will be absolutely unnoticeable in
actual use, they will be overwhelmed by a multitude of other factors.
If you need new pickups, the Geezers would be a good choice.

[fourstring]

Post by JimmyM

Post by Derek Tearne

Post by Derek Tearne

Post by JimmyM
I'm more interested in what you guys think and I'll leave my
editorializing out for now, but suffice it to say that I've never
heard a modern pickup do what the Geezer does and I'm now endorsing
EMG.

I think the EMG's are incredibly quiet...
That's mostly because sound cloud won't play the second clip for me,
unfortunately.

Eventually the second clip worked for me, although the first didn't at
that point so I couldn't really compare directly, but the EMG's
definitely sounded gruntier - I think I'd pick those in a blind test.

Thank you for that input, Derek. Gruntier is a good word, but I'd
also add "prettier" in there as well. Even with all the grunt, I kept
thinking, "Darn pretty sound, too." The mid response is magical in
the Geezer. Doesn't come across as harsh or boxy at all, but it keeps
me right in the mix with clarity of tone and balls. By far the best
Precision tone I've ever gotten out of a Precision besides a couple
pre-CBS ones I played years and years ago.

OK, I'm probably biased (being ex EMG etc) but that Precision sound is the
best I've ever heard across the sonic range...superb.
Clearly Rob Turner's ear is as good with passives as actives.
I think he's got the edge on Bill Bartolini with this set.
I must try and bum a set off of him!!
Best

-C-

[JimmyM]

On Sun, 2 Mar 2014 15:23:13 -0000, "fourstring"

Post by fourstring

Post by JimmyM

Post by Derek Tearne

Post by Derek Tearne

Post by JimmyM
I'm more interested in what you guys think and I'll leave my
editorializing out for now, but suffice it to say that I've never
heard a modern pickup do what the Geezer does and I'm now endorsing
EMG.

I think the EMG's are incredibly quiet...
That's mostly because sound cloud won't play the second clip for me,
unfortunately.

Eventually the second clip worked for me, although the first didn't at
that point so I couldn't really compare directly, but the EMG's
definitely sounded gruntier - I think I'd pick those in a blind test.

Thank you for that input, Derek. Gruntier is a good word, but I'd
also add "prettier" in there as well. Even with all the grunt, I kept
thinking, "Darn pretty sound, too." The mid response is magical in
the Geezer. Doesn't come across as harsh or boxy at all, but it keeps
me right in the mix with clarity of tone and balls. By far the best
Precision tone I've ever gotten out of a Precision besides a couple
pre-CBS ones I played years and years ago.

OK, I'm probably biased (being ex EMG etc) but that Precision sound is the
best I've ever heard across the sonic range...superb.
Clearly Rob Turner's ear is as good with passives as actives.
I think he's got the edge on Bill Bartolini with this set.
I must try and bum a set off of him!!

Yes, Rob Turner is the man, and you really should get a set from him
and try them out for yourself. Don't know him but I have a lot of
respect for his work. I don't think you're hearing things with biased
ears, Clive...I think they're just that good.

[Brian Running]

Post by JimmyM
https://soundcloud.com/jimmy-miller-bass/62orig
https://soundcloud.com/jimmy-miller-bass/gzr

Jimmy, neither one of these links will work for me.

[RichL]

Post by Brian Running

Post by JimmyM
https://soundcloud.com/jimmy-miller-bass/62orig
https://soundcloud.com/jimmy-miller-bass/gzr

Jimmy, neither one of these links will work for me.

Both work fine for me, for what it's worth.

[Brian Running]

Post by RichL

Post by Brian Running
Jimmy, neither one of these links will work for me.

Both work fine for me, for what it's worth.

So, how do they sound?

[RichL]

Post by Brian Running

Post by RichL

Post by Brian Running
Jimmy, neither one of these links will work for me.

Both work fine for me, for what it's worth.

So, how do they sound?

Bassy ;-)

Seriously, the differences are rather subtle. I hear a little more top end
on the EMG one. The EMG one is a bit louder, so my impression of it as
"fuller" may be biased by the volume difference.

FYI I'm using Firefox 27.0.1, in case the browser makes a difference in
terms of being able to access the pages.

[Brian Running]

Post by RichL
FYI I'm using Firefox 27.0.1, in case the browser makes a difference in
terms of being able to access the pages.

Hmmm... I've got Firefox 27.0.1 also. When I click the links, I get,
"Oh, no! Sorry! Something went wrong. Is your network connection
unstable or browser outdated?"

Thought it might have been a cookie issue, but no joy. Network
connection is fine. Guess I'll just have to take your word that they're
bassy.

[JoeSpareBedroom]

Post by RichL
FYI I'm using Firefox 27.0.1, in case the browser makes a difference in
terms of being able to access the pages.

Hmmm... I've got Firefox 27.0.1 also. When I click the links, I get, "Oh,
no! Sorry! Something went wrong. Is your network connection unstable or
browser outdated?"
Thought it might have been a cookie issue, but no joy. Network connection
is fine. Guess I'll just have to take your word that they're bassy.

Same problem here, and same browser.

[Simon Turner]

Post by Brian Running

Post by RichL
FYI I'm using Firefox 27.0.1, in case the browser makes a difference in
terms of being able to access the pages.

Hmmm... I've got Firefox 27.0.1 also. When I click the links, I get,
"Oh, no! Sorry! Something went wrong. Is your network connection
unstable or browser outdated?"

Got the same with Firefox 27.0.1; but Chrome 33.0.1750 worked perfectly.

I agree with the others who prefer the EMGs; they seem to sound somewhat
meatier than the originals, and I would certainly choose them. (But
what do I know? All my basses still have the original p/ups, because I
liked the way they sounded when I bought them.)

[Les Cargill]

Post by RichL

Post by Brian Running

Post by JimmyM
https://soundcloud.com/jimmy-miller-bass/62orig
https://soundcloud.com/jimmy-miller-bass/gzr

Jimmy, neither one of these links will work for me.

Both work fine for me, for what it's worth.

Both links worked intermittently for me.

--
Les Cargill

[JimmyM]

On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 15:37:58 -0600, Brian Running

Post by Brian Running
Jimmy, neither one of these links will work for me.

Sorry about the links not working for some of you, but I just tried
them and the pages came right up. I can link you to the post on
Talkbass with them...maybe that'll work better. And yeah, I said
Talkbass...get over it!

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f38/geezer-butler-signature-pick-ups-1046730/index9.html

The files are in post 176.

Rich, you thought the differences were subtle? Geez, I didn't. The
mids in the Geezer jumped right out at me, and I thought the top end
was more subtle and much prettier than the 62 Original.

[JoeSpareBedroom]

Post by JimmyM
On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 15:37:58 -0600, Brian Running

Post by Brian Running
Jimmy, neither one of these links will work for me.

Sorry about the links not working for some of you, but I just tried
them and the pages came right up. I can link you to the post on
Talkbass with them...maybe that'll work better. And yeah, I said
Talkbass...get over it!
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f38/geezer-butler-signature-pick-ups-1046730/index9.html
The files are in post 176.
Rich, you thought the differences were subtle? Geez, I didn't. The
mids in the Geezer jumped right out at me, and I thought the top end
was more subtle and much prettier than the 62 Original.

This is why all the cool people use Dropbox to share files. It's simple. It
works for everyone.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uhlndus1n2vkcmi/Bad%20Case%20of%20Love%20-%20BB%20King.mp3

[RichL]

Post by JoeSpareBedroom

Post by JimmyM
On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 15:37:58 -0600, Brian Running

Post by Brian Running
Jimmy, neither one of these links will work for me.

Sorry about the links not working for some of you, but I just tried
them and the pages came right up. I can link you to the post on
Talkbass with them...maybe that'll work better. And yeah, I said
Talkbass...get over it!
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f38/geezer-butler-signature-pick-ups-1046730/index9.html
The files are in post 176.
Rich, you thought the differences were subtle? Geez, I didn't. The
mids in the Geezer jumped right out at me, and I thought the top end
was more subtle and much prettier than the 62 Original.

This is why all the cool people use Dropbox to share files. It's simple.
It works for everyone.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uhlndus1n2vkcmi/Bad%20Case%20of%20Love%20-%20BB%20King.mp3

I've never had an issue with Soundcloud. I even tried Jimmy's links again;
they worked fine for me.

[t***@gmail.com]

Post by RichL

Post by JoeSpareBedroom

Post by JimmyM
On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 15:37:58 -0600, Brian Running

Post by Brian Running
Jimmy, neither one of these links will work for me.

Sorry about the links not working for some of you, but I just tried
them and the pages came right up. I can link you to the post on
Talkbass with them...maybe that'll work better. And yeah, I said
Talkbass...get over it!
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f38/geezer-butler-signature-pick-ups-1046730/index9.html
The files are in post 176.
Rich, you thought the differences were subtle? Geez, I didn't. The
mids in the Geezer jumped right out at me, and I thought the top end
was more subtle and much prettier than the 62 Original.

This is why all the cool people use Dropbox to share files. It's simple.
It works for everyone.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uhlndus1n2vkcmi/Bad%20Case%20of%20Love%20-%20BB%20King.mp3

I've never had an issue with Soundcloud. I even tried Jimmy's links again;
they worked fine for me.

same here...

[Derek Tearne]

Post by JoeSpareBedroom
This is why all the cool people use Dropbox to share files. It's simple. It
works for everyone.

Nothing works for everyone, well, once you get beyond text, or audio
created in the same room at the same time.

--- Derek

[Oci-One Kanubi]

Post by Brian Running

Post by JimmyM
https://soundcloud.com/jimmy-miller-bass/62orig
https://soundcloud.com/jimmy-miller-bass/gzr

Jimmy, neither one of these links will work for me.

Brian, the second one didn't play for me when I clicked directly on the link in Jimmy's Newsgroup message, but it did take me to Soundcloud, and once in Soundcloud I clicked on Jimmy's icon to get to the full list of his uploads, and from there both the 62Orig and GZR clips played just fine.

-Richard, His Bassic Travesty

[t***@gmail.com]

Post by JimmyM
So I had expressed a bit of interest in the new EMG Geezer Butler P

Though I didn't see anything wrong with the originals, I did notice the EMG set had a bit more attack.


I hope they are the 'holy grail' for you, Jimmy.

[RichL]

Post by JimmyM
So I had expressed a bit of interest in the new EMG Geezer Butler P
pickup to a friend who works at EMG, and I came home Sunday from my
band's two weeks of cruising the Caribbean and found a box with two of
them on my kitchen table!
It was designed using the pickup in the great Bobby Vega's pre-CBS
Precision as a benchmark...1960, I believe, is the year his bass was
made. Geezer was never happy with the pickups in his Laklands and he
went through a bunch of them, including some well-known boutique
brands, but these he ended up loving the EMG's so he lent his name to
them. They're 100% passive and designed to sound vintage, although
they still have the trademarks of EMG design, such as being sealed in
resin and quick connectors.
A couple days later, I installed one in my 09 AmStd Precision, but not
before I made audio clips comparing it and the 62 Original I put in it
last year. Both pickups are full-on treble and were recorded through
https://soundcloud.com/jimmy-miller-bass/62orig
https://soundcloud.com/jimmy-miller-bass/gzr
I'm more interested in what you guys think and I'll leave my
editorializing out for now, but suffice it to say that I've never
heard a modern pickup do what the Geezer does and I'm now endorsing
EMG. Did first gig with it yesterday, and I was blown away at how
well its voicing works in a band context. But I'd never use a pickup
I didn't like just because someone gave it to me. Not like I can't
afford a passive pickup.
The Geezers come in a P and PJ set, with the J pickup being humbucking
and voiced to balance better tonally and volume-wise with the P. They
should be ready to ship in a few days and they've been taking
pre-orders for a month. And they're not ready to come out yet, but
EMG is also coming out with a vintage style J set, also using Bobby
Vega's pre-CBS Fenders as a benchmark.
Very stoked to be endorsing EMG Pickups after 30 years of using their
products and having to pay full price for them ;)

Oh, by the way I meant to ask, were those clips recorded direct or through
an amp?

[JimmyM]

Post by RichL

Post by JimmyM
So I had expressed a bit of interest in the new EMG Geezer Butler P
pickup to a friend who works at EMG, and I came home Sunday from my
band's two weeks of cruising the Caribbean and found a box with two of
them on my kitchen table!
It was designed using the pickup in the great Bobby Vega's pre-CBS
Precision as a benchmark...1960, I believe, is the year his bass was
made. Geezer was never happy with the pickups in his Laklands and he
went through a bunch of them, including some well-known boutique
brands, but these he ended up loving the EMG's so he lent his name to
them. They're 100% passive and designed to sound vintage, although
they still have the trademarks of EMG design, such as being sealed in
resin and quick connectors.
A couple days later, I installed one in my 09 AmStd Precision, but not
before I made audio clips comparing it and the 62 Original I put in it
last year. Both pickups are full-on treble and were recorded through
https://soundcloud.com/jimmy-miller-bass/62orig
https://soundcloud.com/jimmy-miller-bass/gzr
I'm more interested in what you guys think and I'll leave my
editorializing out for now, but suffice it to say that I've never
heard a modern pickup do what the Geezer does and I'm now endorsing
EMG. Did first gig with it yesterday, and I was blown away at how
well its voicing works in a band context. But I'd never use a pickup
I didn't like just because someone gave it to me. Not like I can't
afford a passive pickup.
The Geezers come in a P and PJ set, with the J pickup being humbucking
and voiced to balance better tonally and volume-wise with the P. They
should be ready to ship in a few days and they've been taking
pre-orders for a month. And they're not ready to come out yet, but
EMG is also coming out with a vintage style J set, also using Bobby
Vega's pre-CBS Fenders as a benchmark.
Very stoked to be endorsing EMG Pickups after 30 years of using their
products and having to pay full price for them ;)

Oh, by the way I meant to ask, were those clips recorded direct or through
an amp?

Direct using my REDDI DI.

[Les Cargill]

Post by JimmyM
So I had expressed a bit of interest in the new EMG Geezer Butler P
pickup to a friend who works at EMG, and I came home Sunday from my
band's two weeks of cruising the Caribbean and found a box with two of
them on my kitchen table!
It was designed using the pickup in the great Bobby Vega's pre-CBS
Precision as a benchmark...1960, I believe, is the year his bass was
made. Geezer was never happy with the pickups in his Laklands and he
went through a bunch of them, including some well-known boutique
brands, but these he ended up loving the EMG's so he lent his name to
them. They're 100% passive and designed to sound vintage, although
they still have the trademarks of EMG design, such as being sealed in
resin and quick connectors.
A couple days later, I installed one in my 09 AmStd Precision, but not
before I made audio clips comparing it and the 62 Original I put in it
last year. Both pickups are full-on treble and were recorded through
https://soundcloud.com/jimmy-miller-bass/62orig
https://soundcloud.com/jimmy-miller-bass/gzr

That's an interesting test, but it will frequently depend on the whole
dern chain, the question of what pickups work best.

Yeah, that's pretty much the usual EMG sound, relative to stock Pbass
pickups. I'm surprised it's passive. EMG cut a lot better and don't
leave as much fur on the stage sound.

It's a bit surprising because my experience has been that tube inputs
generally work better with the classic P pickups than with EMGs.

Have you tried Duncans?

Post by JimmyM
I'm more interested in what you guys think and I'll leave my
editorializing out for now, but suffice it to say that I've never
heard a modern pickup do what the Geezer does and I'm now endorsing
EMG. Did first gig with it yesterday, and I was blown away at how
well its voicing works in a band context. But I'd never use a pickup
I didn't like just because someone gave it to me. Not like I can't
afford a passive pickup.
The Geezers come in a P and PJ set, with the J pickup being humbucking

Nice.

Post by JimmyM
and voiced to balance better tonally and volume-wise with the P. They
should be ready to ship in a few days and they've been taking
pre-orders for a month. And they're not ready to come out yet, but
EMG is also coming out with a vintage style J set, also using Bobby
Vega's pre-CBS Fenders as a benchmark.
Very stoked to be endorsing EMG Pickups after 30 years of using their
products and having to pay full price for them ;)

[JimmyM]

On Sun, 02 Mar 2014 19:54:55 -0600, Les Cargill

Post by Les Cargill
Yeah, that's pretty much the usual EMG sound, relative to stock Pbass
pickups. I'm surprised it's passive. EMG cut a lot better and don't
leave as much fur on the stage sound.

The classic EMG sound is very clear and precise and has not much at
all in common with the passive sound IMHO. The Geezer sounds like a
passive pickup to me all the way. That's because it is ;)

Post by Les Cargill
It's a bit surprising because my experience has been that tube inputs
generally work better with the classic P pickups than with EMGs.

I've used EMG actives since 1984 and most of the time into tube amps,
and I never had any issues whatsoever.

Post by Les Cargill
Have you tried Duncans?

Only the Quarter Pounders. Liked them in some ways, but ultimately
wasn't happy with the mid scoop and overly dark treble. I think
DiMarzio does that type of pickup better. Heard recordings of the
SPB-1 and 2 that I thought were cool, but honestly, I'm done looking
for the world's best P pickup now.

[Pt]

Post by JimmyM
So I had expressed a bit of interest in the new EMG Geezer Butler P
pickup to a friend who works at EMG, and I came home Sunday from my
band's two weeks of cruising the Caribbean and found a box with two of
them on my kitchen table!
It was designed using the pickup in the great Bobby Vega's pre-CBS
Precision as a benchmark...1960, I believe, is the year his bass was
made. Geezer was never happy with the pickups in his Laklands and he
went through a bunch of them, including some well-known boutique
brands, but these he ended up loving the EMG's so he lent his name to
them. They're 100% passive and designed to sound vintage, although
they still have the trademarks of EMG design, such as being sealed in
resin and quick connectors.
A couple days later, I installed one in my 09 AmStd Precision, but not
before I made audio clips comparing it and the 62 Original I put in it
last year. Both pickups are full-on treble and were recorded through
https://soundcloud.com/jimmy-miller-bass/62orig
https://soundcloud.com/jimmy-miller-bass/gzr
I'm more interested in what you guys think and I'll leave my
editorializing out for now, but suffice it to say that I've never
heard a modern pickup do what the Geezer does and I'm now endorsing
EMG. Did first gig with it yesterday, and I was blown away at how
well its voicing works in a band context. But I'd never use a pickup
I didn't like just because someone gave it to me. Not like I can't
afford a passive pickup.
The Geezers come in a P and PJ set, with the J pickup being humbucking
and voiced to balance better tonally and volume-wise with the P. They
should be ready to ship in a few days and they've been taking
pre-orders for a month. And they're not ready to come out yet, but
EMG is also coming out with a vintage style J set, also using Bobby
Vega's pre-CBS Fenders as a benchmark.
Very stoked to be endorsing EMG Pickups after 30 years of using their
products and having to pay full price for them ;)

I listened to your clips and they both sounded good, they reflected your playing ability.
But in a band situation they would be indistinguishable.
A bass is not the primary instrument in a band.
If it aids the percussion and is noticeable it is good, doesn't matter what pickups you are using or what amp.

Pt

[JimmyM]

Post by Pt
I listened to your clips and they both sounded good, they reflected your playing ability.
But in a band situation they would be indistinguishable.
A bass is not the primary instrument in a band.
If it aids the percussion and is noticeable it is good, doesn't matter what pickups you are using or what amp.

Yeah, well way to be a bringdown. I can't abide by that line of
thinking. While it's true that my band(s) almost always go over with
the crowd no matter what I've used, and trust me, I've used and still
use some class A budget gear occasionally, I'd never use it if I
thought it didn't represent what I want to sound like. And that
doesn't mean the differences between the different gear I use are
unnoticeable. I've had civilians comment on my tones many times.

[Jay S]

Post by JimmyM
I'm more interested in what you guys think and I'll leave my
editorializing out for now, but suffice it to say that I've never
heard a modern pickup do what the Geezer does and I'm now endorsing
EMG. Did first gig with it yesterday, and I was blown away at how
well its voicing works in a band context. But I'd never use a pickup
I didn't like just because someone gave it to me. Not like I can't
afford a passive pickup.

______________

I've said it elsewhere, but no one called me a self righteous cock sucker
there, so I'll comment here....
I really dig the EMG clip you put up. So much so that it makes me hate the
62 clip.
You got me gassing for new pickups for my old Precision!
______________

Post by JimmyM
Very stoked to be endorsing EMG Pickups after 30 years of using their
products and having to pay full price for them ;)

___________

Congrats on the endorsement. The best endorsements come from people who
actually use the product long before they get a deal on them.

Jay S

[Oci-One Kanubi]

Post by Jay S

Post by JimmyM
I'm more interested in what you guys think and I'll leave my
editorializing out for now, but suffice it to say that I've never
heard a modern pickup do what the Geezer does and I'm now endorsing
EMG. Did first gig with it yesterday, and I was blown away at how
well its voicing works in a band context. But I'd never use a pickup
I didn't like just because someone gave it to me. Not like I can't
afford a passive pickup.

______________
I've said it elsewhere, but no one called me a self righteous cock sucker
there, so I'll comment here....
I really dig the EMG clip you put up. So much so that it makes me hate the
62 clip.
You got me gassing for new pickups for my old Precision!

I have a 2000 American Standard Precision from eBay molding away in the closet, kind of a last-resort backup bass because (well mostly because I haven't taken the trouble to try to sell it) it has a dead zone on the neck; G string from around the 3rd to 8th frets, IIRC, but particularly noticeable when I hit the 5th-fret C.

I seem to have heard that this is a common problem with Fender basses (or maybe just Fender Ps), at exactly this this part of the neck; it occurs, in differing degree, in two of my three MIA Fender Ps; not so much in my two MIM PJs, and not at all in my MIM P-necked Jazz.

Is there any chance a change of pickups can ameliorate this problem, or is the problem intrinsic to the wood & the build; to the design of the Fender P? I wouldn't want to pay $110 if it would just be lipstick on a pig, but if pickups can sometimes ameliorate the problem I would be happy to spend a bit to salvage an otherwise very nice bass.

-Richard, His Bassic Travesty

[RichL]

Post by Oci-One Kanubi

Post by Jay S

Post by JimmyM
I'm more interested in what you guys think and I'll leave my
editorializing out for now, but suffice it to say that I've never
heard a modern pickup do what the Geezer does and I'm now endorsing
EMG. Did first gig with it yesterday, and I was blown away at how
well its voicing works in a band context. But I'd never use a pickup
I didn't like just because someone gave it to me. Not like I can't
afford a passive pickup.

______________
I've said it elsewhere, but no one called me a self righteous cock sucker
there, so I'll comment here....
I really dig the EMG clip you put up. So much so that it makes me hate the
62 clip.
You got me gassing for new pickups for my old Precision!

I have a 2000 American Standard Precision from eBay molding away in the
closet, kind of a last-resort backup bass because (well mostly because I
haven't taken the trouble to try to sell it) it has a dead zone on the
neck; G string from around the 3rd to 8th frets, IIRC, but particularly
noticeable when I hit the 5th-fret C.
I seem to have heard that this is a common problem with Fender basses (or
maybe just Fender Ps), at exactly this this part of the neck; it occurs,
in differing degree, in two of my three MIA Fender Ps; not so much in my
two MIM PJs, and not at all in my MIM P-necked Jazz.
Is there any chance a change of pickups can ameliorate this problem, or is
the problem intrinsic to the wood & the build; to the design of the Fender
P? I wouldn't want to pay $110 if it would just be lipstick on a pig, but
if pickups can sometimes ameliorate the problem I would be happy to spend
a bit to salvage an otherwise very nice bass.

It seems to be common with both Ps and Js, and it's an inherent property of
the neck. Resonant frequency at the offending note (and nearby) sucks the
energy out of the string and into the neck wood. Swapping pickups won't
cure it, but if you might try this:

http://johnkvintageguitars.homestead.com/Bass-Deadspot-Removal.html

My fretless Jazz bass has a dead spot at about the place you describe, but
in my case it's mild and a listener would never notice unless I tried to
play a long sustained C note at that spot. I play it on the D string
instead ;-)

[Nil]

Post by RichL
It seems to be common with both Ps and Js, and it's an inherent
property of the neck. Resonant frequency at the offending note
(and nearby) sucks the energy out of the string and into the neck
http://johnkvintageguitars.homestead.com/Bass-Deadspot-Removal.html

The discontinued Fathead mentioned in that article is what I was
referring to in my last post. The "Fatfinger" mentioned is now being
sold by Fender:

http://www.fender.com/accessories/fatfinger/fatfinger-guitar-nickel/

It's really just a prettier C-clamp. You could try one from your
toolbox to see if it cures the problem before spending the $25 on the
shiny Fender one.

Post by RichL
My fretless Jazz bass has a dead spot at about the place you
describe, but in my case it's mild and a listener would never
notice unless I tried to play a long sustained C note at that
spot. I play it on the D string instead ;-)

[Brian Running]

Post by Nil
http://www.fender.com/accessories/fatfinger/fatfinger-guitar-nickel/
It's really just a prettier C-clamp. You could try one from your
toolbox to see if it cures the problem before spending the $25 on the
shiny Fender one.

Okey dokey now -- Fender four-string basses have had the "feature" of a
dead spot on the G string since the dawn of time. No one likes it,
although some try to justify it as part of the "Fender sound." "What do
you want that much sustain for, anyway"? "Just play somewhere else on
the neck, and quitcher whinin'." Everyone, including Fender, knows
about this defect.

So, instead of addressing the problem properly and correcting this
defect in their necks - which every other manufacturer seems to have
figured out - they market a little clamp with a funny name and sell it
for $19.99. I'm surprised they're selling it that cheap.

Fender is truly the Harley-Davidson of basses.

[Nil]

Post by Brian Running
Okey dokey now -- Fender four-string basses have had the "feature"
of a dead spot on the G string since the dawn of time. No one
likes it, although some try to justify it as part of the "Fender
sound." "What do you want that much sustain for, anyway"? "Just
play somewhere else on the neck, and quitcher whinin'." Everyone,
including Fender, knows about this defect.

Well, to be fair(er), Fenders aren't the only ones with this "feature."
For years I played a Gibson Les Paul that had a dead spot around the
high b and g strings at the 8th or 9th fret. I learned to play around
it. And my Fender Jazz Bass doesn't seem to have the dread spot. It's a
'70s style bass - was the headstock a different size in those days,
like it was on the Fender Stratocaster? Maybe that makes a difference.

Post by Brian Running
So, instead of addressing the problem properly and correcting this
defect in their necks - which every other manufacturer seems to
have figured out - they market a little clamp with a funny name
and sell it for $19.99. I'm surprised they're selling it that
cheap.

Or, you could ream out some holes in your headstock. Nice to have
alternatives!

Post by Brian Running
Fender is truly the Harley-Davidson of basses.

Good analogy. Fender has tried a few different things from time to
time, but the market has not been very approving of their efforts.

[Brian Running]

Post by Nil
Well, to be fair(er), Fenders aren't the only ones with this "feature."
For years I played a Gibson Les Paul that had a dead spot around the
high b and g strings at the 8th or 9th fret. I learned to play around
it. And my Fender Jazz Bass doesn't seem to have the dread spot.

Well, if we have to be fair... kinda takes the fun out of it. ;-) But
yeah, the natural variability of wood density and grain will cause some
instruments to have dead spots, and will cause some individual examples
of instruments that are notorious for dead spots not to have them. But,
there's a good reason why Fender four-strings are well-known for their
dead spots, and that's because the vast majority of them have 'em. It's
not just a few examples here and there that could be attributed to wood
variations, it's almost every damn one of them. That's also the reason
that discussions of "Fatfingers" always seem to revolve around Fender
basses. I wonder if any other bass manufacturer makes a "Fatfinger"?

Here's my own little tip for dealing with (some) dead spots: If you
live in a place like I do (Wisconsin) where the humidity varies wildly
from season to season, you will find that screws anchored in wood will
loosen as the damp-dry cycles make the wood repeatedly expand and
shrink. If you're having dead-spot issues, or other funny-resonance
issues, take out a Phillips driver and tighten all the screws on your
bass - especially the neck-to-body joint screws. It will sometimes make
a noticeable difference.

[Claude V. Lucas]

Post by Brian Running

Post by Nil
Well, to be fair(er), Fenders aren't the only ones with this "feature."
For years I played a Gibson Les Paul that had a dead spot around the
high b and g strings at the 8th or 9th fret. I learned to play around
it. And my Fender Jazz Bass doesn't seem to have the dread spot.

Well, if we have to be fair... kinda takes the fun out of it. ;-) But
yeah, the natural variability of wood density and grain will cause some
instruments to have dead spots, and will cause some individual examples
of instruments that are notorious for dead spots not to have them. But,
there's a good reason why Fender four-strings are well-known for their
dead spots, and that's because the vast majority of them have 'em. It's
not just a few examples here and there that could be attributed to wood
variations, it's almost every damn one of them. That's also the reason
that discussions of "Fatfingers" always seem to revolve around Fender
basses. I wonder if any other bass manufacturer makes a "Fatfinger"?
Here's my own little tip for dealing with (some) dead spots: If you
live in a place like I do (Wisconsin) where the humidity varies wildly
from season to season, you will find that screws anchored in wood will
loosen as the damp-dry cycles make the wood repeatedly expand and
shrink. If you're having dead-spot issues, or other funny-resonance
issues, take out a Phillips driver and tighten all the screws on your
bass - especially the neck-to-body joint screws. It will sometimes make
a noticeable difference.

Changing the tension on the trussrod seems to move the dead spot
around on my semi-homemade Fenderish 4 string...

A new set of TI Jazz Rounds made it go almost completely away...

[Les Cargill]

Post by Claude V. Lucas

Post by Brian Running

Post by Nil
Well, to be fair(er), Fenders aren't the only ones with this "feature."
For years I played a Gibson Les Paul that had a dead spot around the
high b and g strings at the 8th or 9th fret. I learned to play around
it. And my Fender Jazz Bass doesn't seem to have the dread spot.

Well, if we have to be fair... kinda takes the fun out of it. ;-) But
yeah, the natural variability of wood density and grain will cause some
instruments to have dead spots, and will cause some individual examples
of instruments that are notorious for dead spots not to have them. But,
there's a good reason why Fender four-strings are well-known for their
dead spots, and that's because the vast majority of them have 'em. It's
not just a few examples here and there that could be attributed to wood
variations, it's almost every damn one of them. That's also the reason
that discussions of "Fatfingers" always seem to revolve around Fender
basses. I wonder if any other bass manufacturer makes a "Fatfinger"?
Here's my own little tip for dealing with (some) dead spots: If you
live in a place like I do (Wisconsin) where the humidity varies wildly
from season to season, you will find that screws anchored in wood will
loosen as the damp-dry cycles make the wood repeatedly expand and
shrink. If you're having dead-spot issues, or other funny-resonance
issues, take out a Phillips driver and tighten all the screws on your
bass - especially the neck-to-body joint screws. It will sometimes make
a noticeable difference.

Changing the tension on the trussrod seems to move the dead spot
around on my semi-homemade Fenderish 4 string...
A new set of TI Jazz Rounds made it go almost completely away...

String can have dead spots too. I had a set of Rotosound that would not
intonate. You could get 4 fret 5 & 7 set,fret 12 would be out..

--
Les Cargill

[Claude V. Lucas]

Post by Les Cargill

Post by Claude V. Lucas

Post by Brian Running

Post by Nil
Well, to be fair(er), Fenders aren't the only ones with this "feature."
For years I played a Gibson Les Paul that had a dead spot around the
high b and g strings at the 8th or 9th fret. I learned to play around
it. And my Fender Jazz Bass doesn't seem to have the dread spot.

Well, if we have to be fair... kinda takes the fun out of it. ;-) But
yeah, the natural variability of wood density and grain will cause some
instruments to have dead spots, and will cause some individual examples
of instruments that are notorious for dead spots not to have them. But,
there's a good reason why Fender four-strings are well-known for their
dead spots, and that's because the vast majority of them have 'em. It's
not just a few examples here and there that could be attributed to wood
variations, it's almost every damn one of them. That's also the reason
that discussions of "Fatfingers" always seem to revolve around Fender
basses. I wonder if any other bass manufacturer makes a "Fatfinger"?
Here's my own little tip for dealing with (some) dead spots: If you
live in a place like I do (Wisconsin) where the humidity varies wildly
from season to season, you will find that screws anchored in wood will
loosen as the damp-dry cycles make the wood repeatedly expand and
shrink. If you're having dead-spot issues, or other funny-resonance
issues, take out a Phillips driver and tighten all the screws on your
bass - especially the neck-to-body joint screws. It will sometimes make
a noticeable difference.

Changing the tension on the trussrod seems to move the dead spot
around on my semi-homemade Fenderish 4 string...
A new set of TI Jazz Rounds made it go almost completely away...

String can have dead spots too. I had a set of Rotosound that would not
intonate. You could get 4 fret 5 & 7 set,fret 12 would be out..

I try to change strings every 5 years or so whether they need it or not...

[Pt]

Post by Brian Running

Post by Nil
http://www.fender.com/accessories/fatfinger/fatfinger-guitar-nickel/
It's really just a prettier C-clamp. You could try one from your
toolbox to see if it cures the problem before spending the $25 on the
shiny Fender one.

Okey dokey now -- Fender four-string basses have had the "feature" of a
dead spot on the G string since the dawn of time. No one likes it,
although some try to justify it as part of the "Fender sound." "What do
you want that much sustain for, anyway"? "Just play somewhere else on
the neck, and quitcher whinin'." Everyone, including Fender, knows
about this defect.
So, instead of addressing the problem properly and correcting this
defect in their necks - which every other manufacturer seems to have
figured out - they market a little clamp with a funny name and sell it
for $19.99. I'm surprised they're selling it that cheap.
Fender is truly the Harley-Davidson of basses.

I had a 1977 Jazz Bass that was loaded with dead spots.
Never could get rid of them.
It had the big Fender headstock too.
Sold it for a good buck.

Pt

[Brian Running]

Post by Pt
I had a 1977 Jazz Bass that was loaded with dead spots.
Never could get rid of them.
It had the big Fender headstock too.
Sold it for a good buck.

Ah, yes... the high-D deadspot, the dreaded S-bend, the snap-crackle-pop
electronics... so much to love 'bout them Fenders.

[Les Cargill]

Post by Brian Running

Post by Pt
I had a 1977 Jazz Bass that was loaded with dead spots.
Never could get rid of them.
It had the big Fender headstock too.
Sold it for a good buck.

Ah, yes... the high-D deadspot, the dreaded S-bend, the snap-crackle-pop
electronics... so much to love 'bout them Fenders.

They only hurts us because they love us. They can change. I just know it!

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by Brian Running

Post by Nil
http://www.fender.com/accessories/fatfinger/fatfinger-guitar-nickel/
It's really just a prettier C-clamp. You could try one from your
toolbox to see if it cures the problem before spending the $25 on the
shiny Fender one.

Okey dokey now -- Fender four-string basses have had the "feature" of a
dead spot on the G string since the dawn of time. No one likes it,
although some try to justify it as part of the "Fender sound." "What do
you want that much sustain for, anyway"? "Just play somewhere else on
the neck, and quitcher whinin'." Everyone, including Fender, knows
about this defect.
So, instead of addressing the problem properly and correcting this
defect in their necks - which every other manufacturer seems to have
figured out - they market a little clamp with a funny name and sell it
for $19.99. I'm surprised they're selling it that cheap.
Fender is truly the Harley-Davidson of basses.

As you are the epitome of a fraud Musician, CUNT.

[Nil]

Post by Oci-One Kanubi
I have a 2000 American Standard Precision from eBay molding away
in the closet, kind of a last-resort backup bass because (well
mostly because I haven't taken the trouble to try to sell it) it
has a dead zone on the neck; G string from around the 3rd to 8th
frets, IIRC, but particularly noticeable when I hit the 5th-fret
C.
I seem to have heard that this is a common problem with Fender
basses (or maybe just Fender Ps), at exactly this this part of the
neck; it occurs, in differing degree, in two of my three MIA
Fender Ps; not so much in my two MIM PJs, and not at all in my MIM
P-necked Jazz.
Is there any chance a change of pickups can ameliorate this
problem, or is the problem intrinsic to the wood & the build; to
the design of the Fender P? I wouldn't want to pay $110 if it
would just be lipstick on a pig, but if pickups can sometimes
ameliorate the problem I would be happy to spend a bit to salvage
an otherwise very nice bass.

I would doubt that pickups can do much to ameliorate a dead spot like
that. You might be able to play with tons of compression, volume, and
distortion to mask it, but that's probably not a good solution.

I've been told that a big factor in that is the size, mass, and
stiffness of the headstock. You used to be able to buy (and maybe still
can) a metal plate that attaches to the back of the headstock, the
effect being that it moves the dead spot somewhere off the fingerboard.
It doesn't eliminate it, exactly, but it moves that resonant node out
of the way. I haven't tried it myself.

P.S. - I just looked it up. It was called the "Fathead" and seems to
not be made any longer. I don't think it would take much to make one if
you had metalworking resources.

[Sam Wilson]

Post by Oci-One Kanubi

Post by Jay S

Post by JimmyM
I'm more interested in what you guys think and I'll leave my
editorializing out for now, but suffice it to say that I've never
heard a modern pickup do what the Geezer does and I'm now endorsing
EMG. Did first gig with it yesterday, and I was blown away at how
well its voicing works in a band context. But I'd never use a pickup
I didn't like just because someone gave it to me. Not like I can't
afford a passive pickup.

______________
I've said it elsewhere, but no one called me a self righteous cock sucker
there, so I'll comment here....
I really dig the EMG clip you put up. So much so that it makes me hate the
62 clip.
You got me gassing for new pickups for my old Precision!

I have a 2000 American Standard Precision from eBay molding away in the
closet, kind of a last-resort backup bass because (well mostly because I
haven't taken the trouble to try to sell it) it has a dead zone on the neck;
G string from around the 3rd to 8th frets, IIRC, but particularly noticeable
when I hit the 5th-fret C.
I seem to have heard that this is a common problem with Fender basses (or
maybe just Fender Ps), at exactly this this part of the neck; it occurs, in
differing degree, in two of my three MIA Fender Ps; not so much in my two MIM
PJs, and not at all in my MIM P-necked Jazz.

Just to add to the history, my Rosetti Bass 9 (don't ask - well, ask,
but expect a long nostalgic answer) had that kind of dead spot, my far
eastern Jazz copy had it and my '75 US-made Jazz had it. My headless
Hohner B2A has a hint of it and my headless Hohner Jack V has a smaller
hint, but is just about OK. I don't think my defretted Shine 5er has it.

I'm slowly *un*learning never to play the first 5 frets on the G string.

Sam

[Pt]

Post by Sam Wilson

Post by Oci-One Kanubi

Post by Jay S

Post by JimmyM
I'm more interested in what you guys think and I'll leave my
editorializing out for now, but suffice it to say that I've never
heard a modern pickup do what the Geezer does and I'm now endorsing
EMG. Did first gig with it yesterday, and I was blown away at how
well its voicing works in a band context. But I'd never use a pickup
I didn't like just because someone gave it to me. Not like I can't
afford a passive pickup.

______________
I've said it elsewhere, but no one called me a self righteous cock sucker
there, so I'll comment here....
I really dig the EMG clip you put up. So much so that it makes me hate the
62 clip.
You got me gassing for new pickups for my old Precision!

I have a 2000 American Standard Precision from eBay molding away in the
closet, kind of a last-resort backup bass because (well mostly because I
haven't taken the trouble to try to sell it) it has a dead zone on the neck;
G string from around the 3rd to 8th frets, IIRC, but particularly noticeable
when I hit the 5th-fret C.
I seem to have heard that this is a common problem with Fender basses (or
maybe just Fender Ps), at exactly this this part of the neck; it occurs, in
differing degree, in two of my three MIA Fender Ps; not so much in my two MIM
PJs, and not at all in my MIM P-necked Jazz.

Just to add to the history, my Rosetti Bass 9 (don't ask - well, ask,
but expect a long nostalgic answer) had that kind of dead spot, my far
eastern Jazz copy had it and my '75 US-made Jazz had it. My headless
Hohner B2A has a hint of it and my headless Hohner Jack V has a smaller
hint, but is just about OK. I don't think my defretted Shine 5er has it.
I'm slowly *un*learning never to play the first 5 frets on the G string.
Sam
--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

Just a comment on dead spots.
For a recording project I wired my 1977 jazz bass for stereo with a stereo jack.
Going through two channels on the board there were no dead spots.
Using a Y adapter through an amp the dead spots came back.
I wired it back to original when the project was done and the dead spots were back.
It is possible that pickups have something to do with dead spots.

Pt

[JimmyM]

Post by Jay S

Post by JimmyM
I'm more interested in what you guys think and I'll leave my
editorializing out for now, but suffice it to say that I've never
heard a modern pickup do what the Geezer does and I'm now endorsing
EMG. Did first gig with it yesterday, and I was blown away at how
well its voicing works in a band context. But I'd never use a pickup
I didn't like just because someone gave it to me. Not like I can't
afford a passive pickup.

______________
I've said it elsewhere, but no one called me a self righteous cock sucker
there, so I'll comment here....
I really dig the EMG clip you put up. So much so that it makes me hate the
62 clip.
You got me gassing for new pickups for my old Precision!

Ya, it's crazy...and here I actually liked that 62 Original before I
got the Geezer. Didn't love it, though. Always felt it was too
bright and something was off about the mids. I have a 62 CS I bought
in like 2000 or 2001 that's a lot better in my 76 Precision. Would
install the Geezer P in it but it's a PJ now and Chrys is sending me a
Geezer J for it.

Post by Jay S

Post by JimmyM
Very stoked to be endorsing EMG Pickups after 30 years of using their
products and having to pay full price for them ;)

___________
Congrats on the endorsement. The best endorsements come from people who
actually use the product long before they get a deal on them.

Thank you, Jay. Nice of you to say.

Now will the rest of you bastards quit hijacking my thread and
actually comment on my clips, please? Richard asked a simple question
whether dead spots can be cured by new pickups. I think he got his
answer...

Except for one thing...nobody mentioned the tightness of the neck
bolts yet. I've found if they're not super tight, dead spots can
happen to a greater degree. That's entirely too big a range to be a
simple dead spot, since dead spots are caused by the resonant
frequency of the neck, which is almost always limited to one note,
usually the C# on the G string. So see if you can tighten up the neck
bolts any, and see if it improves the aituation.

[Nil]

Post by JimmyM
Now will the rest of you bastards quit hijacking my thread and
actually comment on my clips, please? Richard asked a simple
question whether dead spots can be cured by new pickups. I think
he got his answer...

It's not your thread, you just started it. It now belongs to the ether.

The clips were nice.

Post by JimmyM
Except for one thing...nobody mentioned the tightness of the neck
bolts yet. I've found if they're not super tight, dead spots can
happen to a greater degree. That's entirely too big a range to be
a simple dead spot, since dead spots are caused by the resonant
frequency of the neck, which is almost always limited to one note,
usually the C# on the G string. So see if you can tighten up the
neck bolts any, and see if it improves the aituation.

Running already mentioned that.

[JimmyM]

On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 03:41:08 -0500, Nil

Post by Nil

Post by JimmyM
Now will the rest of you bastards quit hijacking my thread and
actually comment on my clips, please? Richard asked a simple
question whether dead spots can be cured by new pickups. I think
he got his answer...

It's not your thread, you just started it. It now belongs to the ether.

DOH!

Post by Nil
The clips were nice.

Thx Nil. Have a preference for pickups?

Post by Nil

Post by JimmyM
Except for one thing...nobody mentioned the tightness of the neck
bolts yet. I've found if they're not super tight, dead spots can
happen to a greater degree. That's entirely too big a range to be
a simple dead spot, since dead spots are caused by the resonant
frequency of the neck, which is almost always limited to one note,
usually the C# on the G string. So see if you can tighten up the
neck bolts any, and see if it improves the aituation.

Running already mentioned that.

DOH!

[Nil]

Post by JimmyM
On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 03:41:08 -0500, Nil

Post by Nil
The clips were nice.

Thx Nil. Have a preference for pickups?

I was being a smartass - I hadn't actually listened to them yet. But I
have now: I like the Geezers. The '62s sound a little too scooped or
something, and they seem to bring out the fret rattle and finger noise
more than they should. The EMGs have a little more midrange and body to
them, I think. I'd like to hear them in context.

I'm a little surprised. I've never been that impressed with active EMG
bass pickups, and I've disliked the passive EMGs I've heard up until
now. But the Geezers sound sound really good.

Post by JimmyM

Post by Nil

Post by JimmyM
Except for one thing...nobody mentioned the tightness of the
neck bolts yet. I've found if they're not super tight, dead
spots can happen to a greater degree. That's entirely too big a
range to be a simple dead spot, since dead spots are caused by
the resonant frequency of the neck, which is almost always
limited to one note, usually the C# on the G string. So see if
you can tighten up the neck bolts any, and see if it improves
the aituation.

Running already mentioned that.

DOH!

[JimmyM]

On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 20:00:27 -0500, Nil

Post by Nil

Post by JimmyM
On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 03:41:08 -0500, Nil

Post by Nil
The clips were nice.

Thx Nil. Have a preference for pickups?

I was being a smartass - I hadn't actually listened to them yet. But I
have now: I like the Geezers. The '62s sound a little too scooped or
something, and they seem to bring out the fret rattle and finger noise
more than they should. The EMGs have a little more midrange and body to
them, I think. I'd like to hear them in context.

In context, the best words I can use are "pretty but tons of balls."
No ugly boxy mid sound, no overcooked treble...pretty.

Post by Nil
I'm a little surprised. I've never been that impressed with active EMG
bass pickups, and I've disliked the passive EMGs I've heard up until
now. But the Geezers sound sound really good.

Used active PJ's and JJ's off and on for years. Really enjoyed them
but got back into passives over the last decade. Never liked their
passives, either. Always felt they made them as an afterthought just
to get into that market. Rob Turner's very much into active and sees
them that way, too. But he really came through on the Geezers.

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by Jay S

"JimmyM" wrote in message

I've said it elsewhere, but no one called me a self righteous cock sucker
there, so I'll comment here....
Jay S

You ARE a self-righteous cocksucker. Jimmy gonna blow you now for agreeing with him?
Fucking fraud FAGGOT.

[JimmyM]

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Jay S

"JimmyM" wrote in message

I've said it elsewhere, but no one called me a self righteous cock sucker
there, so I'll comment here....
Jay S

You ARE a self-righteous cocksucker. Jimmy gonna blow you now for agreeing with him?
Fucking fraud FAGGOT.

Why yes I am...mmm...dick!

[Jay S]

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Jay S

"JimmyM" wrote in message

I've said it elsewhere, but no one called me a self righteous cock sucker
there, so I'll comment here....
Jay S

You ARE a self-righteous cocksucker. Jimmy gonna blow you now for agreeing with him?
Fucking fraud FAGGOT.
Why yes I am...mmm...dick!

Post by Jay S

.

If I decipher this properly, then Jimmy blowing me makes him gay, but I'm a
fraud as a faggot?
At least I'm still a steady working bassist....or am I?

Jay S

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by Jay S

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Jay S

"JimmyM" wrote in message

I've said it elsewhere, but no one called me a self righteous cock sucker
there, so I'll comment here....
Jay S

You ARE a self-righteous cocksucker. Jimmy gonna blow you now for agreeing
with him?
Fucking fraud FAGGOT.
Why yes I am...mmm...dick!

Post by Jay S

.

If I decipher this properly, then Jimmy blowing me makes him gay, but I'm a
fraud as a faggot?
At least I'm still a steady working bassist....or am I?
Jay S

No, you're a gutless fraud cunt, that's scared of me...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Keep hiding, you'll be found.

[JimmyM]

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Jay S

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Jay S

"JimmyM" wrote in message

I've said it elsewhere, but no one called me a self righteous cock sucker
there, so I'll comment here....
Jay S

You ARE a self-righteous cocksucker. Jimmy gonna blow you now for agreeing
with him?
Fucking fraud FAGGOT.
Why yes I am...mmm...dick!

Post by Jay S

.

If I decipher this properly, then Jimmy blowing me makes him gay, but I'm a
fraud as a faggot?
At least I'm still a steady working bassist....or am I?
Jay S

No, you're a gutless fraud cunt, that's scared of me...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Keep hiding, you'll be found.

And you say we're the ones who are gay.

Calm down. Take your blood pressure meds.

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by JimmyM
And you say we're the ones who are gay.
Calm down. Take your blood pressure meds.

Fuck off fag.

[fourstring]

Post by JimmyM

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Jay S

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Jay S

"JimmyM" wrote in message

I've said it elsewhere, but no one called me a self righteous cock sucker
there, so I'll comment here....
Jay S

You ARE a self-righteous cocksucker. Jimmy gonna blow you now for agreeing
with him?
Fucking fraud FAGGOT.
Why yes I am...mmm...dick!

Post by Jay S

.

If I decipher this properly, then Jimmy blowing me makes him gay, but I'm a
fraud as a faggot?
At least I'm still a steady working bassist....or am I?
Jay S

No, you're a gutless fraud cunt, that's scared of me...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Keep hiding, you'll be found.

And you say we're the ones who are gay.
Calm down. Take your blood pressure meds.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.
Stop taking his bait.
I've got him kill-filed. If you don't have that facility
just ignore him.
If you don't respond to his pathetic taunts
he will go away and try his luck elsewhere.
DO NOT FEED THE TROLL
Please.

-C-
Anything is possible if you don't
know what you're talking about

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by fourstring
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
Stop taking his bait.
I've got him kill-filed. If you don't have that facility
just ignore him.
If you don't respond to his pathetic taunts
he will go away and try his luck elsewhere.
DO NOT FEED THE TROLL
Please.

FUCK YOU TOO, CUNT. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA