Discussion:
100W too much for practice bass amp?
(too old to reply)
markd
2009-08-06 12:51:28 UTC
Permalink
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.

We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get very
good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too much for
a practice amp. His teacher seemed to think a 20W model would be ok
for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!).

My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume. So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
Restless Fingers Syndrome
2009-08-06 13:03:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by markd
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
You are talking to guitar amp guys ! As the song goes ,
let the boy boggy woggie. At least the 100w will have a resell
value on criag's list too.

Having a 14yo stick to anything is a challenge.
Phil_S
2009-08-06 13:15:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get very
good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too much for
a practice amp. His teacher seemed to think a 20W model would be ok
for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!).
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume. So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
Well, IMO, yes and no. Probably what you say is correct, but I don't think
it covers all that it should cover.

Your 14 y/o won't get the *thump* from the 20W that he'll get from the 100W.
Such may seem esoteric, but it is not. It may be the differnce between
likeing it and loving it. Part of the experience is visceral. Give him the
100W thump. It will make a difference in holding his interest. I'm talking
about *dynamics* here, which is a foundation building block in music.

Buy yourself some earplugs and relegate him to the basement or garage.
Nildram
2009-08-06 14:11:36 UTC
Permalink
How well do you get on with your neighbours?
I can shake the floor with 25 watts of bass.
I'd suggest renting or buying second-hand if
he gets into a band situation but 100 watts + bass
+ teenager + bedroom?
No way!!!!
--
Clive P Norris
Managing Director
Selectron (UK) Ltd
Musical Equipment Distribution.
www.skullstrings.com
www.espguitars.co.uk
www.emgpickups.co.uk
www.tube-shop.com
www.coreoneproduct.com
www.whirlwindusa.com
www.espshop.co.uk
To err is human.....
But to blame someone
else shows management potential.
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get very
good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too much for
a practice amp. His teacher seemed to think a 20W model would be ok
for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!).
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume. So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
JGN
2009-08-06 16:00:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nildram
How well do you get on with your neighbours?
I can shake the floor with 25 watts of bass.
I'd suggest renting or buying second-hand if
he gets into a band situation but 100 watts + bass
+ teenager + bedroom?
No way!!!!
As a former teenager with a 100W amp in a bedroom, I sure remember my dad's
reaction - karma will probably make my son a ham-fisted drummer...

(actually, I'd love to jam with my son... I might just buy him that drum
kit...)
Stephen Cowell
2009-08-06 14:32:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by markd
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume.
That's true... bass should not (mostly) be distorted, so
that 100W is providing unused headroom.
Post by markd
So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
It really depends on the speaker. You can run 20w
into a giant speaker and shake the house.

Let's go on the assumption that you're buying
a combo amp with typically-sized speakers for
the wattage. That would mean a 10/12 inch for
the 20w and a fifteen-inch for the 100W.

Here's the thing... 100W is not enough for a bass
in a loud band, yet it's plenty for a jazz band or practice
amp. Look at the style your child likes to play...
if its distorted, get the 20w (rock, fuzz bass) and if
it's clean get the 100w (jazz band bass).
__
Steve
.
Monkey Pi
2009-08-06 15:06:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Cowell
Here's the thing... 100W is not enough for a bass
in a loud band,
Disagree
I played in punk/garage type bands for years with a 65W. There were a
couple of times I had to walk out of practice because nobody noticed I
stopped playing, but for the most part I was able to keep guitarists and
drummers responsible(ish) and we were still plenty loud. Most of the
crappy places you play when you are just starting out don't require
bigger equipment than that....unless you like blowing everyone out of
the room.

Monkey Pi
--
_ _
|o| o , o_,' o_, |o|
|O| <%'. _`'_ === <\_ |O|
(0) / | (_)`-' | / | (0)
p-----MonkeyMonkeyMonkey-----q
Stephen Cowell
2009-08-06 15:26:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Monkey Pi
Post by Stephen Cowell
Here's the thing... 100W is not enough for a bass
in a loud band,
Disagree
I played in punk/garage type bands for years with a 65W. There were a
couple of times I had to walk out of practice because nobody noticed I
stopped playing,
Thanks for helping!
__
Steve
.
Monkey Pi
2009-08-06 16:17:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Cowell
Post by Monkey Pi
Post by Stephen Cowell
Here's the thing... 100W is not enough for a bass
in a loud band,
Disagree
I played in punk/garage type bands for years with a 65W. There were a
couple of times I had to walk out of practice because nobody noticed I
stopped playing,
Thanks for helping!
__
Steve
.
Nice snippage.
If you had read the whole thing, not what you snipped to try to look
like a comedy genius, you would have gathered that the amp wasn't too
quiet. Those few times (maybe 3 out of hundreds of practices) were times
when a normally really loud band was temporarily Monstrously loud to the
point where nobody should have been in the room. If you want to
encourage someone to ruin their child's hearing by having them compete
in volume wars, then I nominate you for parent's helper of the year.

Thanks For Helping!!

Monkey Pi
--
_ _
|o| o , o_,' o_, |o|
|O| <%'. _`'_ === <\_ |O|
(0) / | (_)`-' | / | (0)
p-----MonkeyMonkeyMonkey-----q
Phil_S
2009-08-06 18:21:58 UTC
Permalink
Some people have no sense of humor.
Jose de las Heras
2009-08-06 14:35:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get very
good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too much for
a practice amp. His teacher seemed to think a 20W model would be ok
for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!).
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume. So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
I don't think it's overkill. It'll sound a lot better than a small 20W with
(presumably) a tiny speaker in a tiny box.
A 100W amp will have a volume knob, just don't overdo it there :-)
With 100W he may be able to start jamming and carrying it around, probably a
good compromise.
I often use a 450W amp at home for practice... but don't play it loud.
Last night I rehearsed with a 150W Trace Elliot combo... and it was ok for
our room with drums, two singers, keys and a guitar.

Small bass amps are not very useful, unless portability/size is a big issue.
A 100W sounds like a great move. Something like the Roland Bass Cube 100W.

Jose
--
www.mcnach.com
Richt Hoat Chillies: http://www.myspace.com/rhcpscot - Bass: OLP MM2
Conscious Route: http://www.myspace.com/consciousroute - Bass: Warwick
Corvette $$
www.myspace.com/purplenoise68
-
Current favourite guitar: Fender 'Sambora' Stratocaster
Current favourite bass: Warwick Corvette $$
jh
2009-08-06 16:00:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jose de las Heras
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get very
good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too much for
a practice amp. His teacher seemed to think a 20W model would be ok
for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!).
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume. So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
I don't think it's overkill. It'll sound a lot better than a small 20W with
(presumably) a tiny speaker in a tiny box.
A 100W amp will have a volume knob, just don't overdo it there :-)
!!! Exactly *this* WILL be the conquest!!!
Boy - I gwt outta the house - promise me NOT to turn the volume knob
past 3. Yess daddy

Daddy leaves the house..............................

Jochen
Post by Jose de las Heras
With 100W he may be able to start jamming and carrying it around, probably a
good compromise.
I often use a 450W amp at home for practice... but don't play it loud.
Last night I rehearsed with a 150W Trace Elliot combo... and it was ok for
our room with drums, two singers, keys and a guitar.
Small bass amps are not very useful, unless portability/size is a big issue.
A 100W sounds like a great move. Something like the Roland Bass Cube 100W.
Jose
Jose de las Heras
2009-08-06 16:15:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by jh
Post by Jose de las Heras
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get very
good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too much for
a practice amp. His teacher seemed to think a 20W model would be ok
for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!).
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume. So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
I don't think it's overkill. It'll sound a lot better than a small 20W
with (presumably) a tiny speaker in a tiny box.
A 100W amp will have a volume knob, just don't overdo it there :-)
!!! Exactly *this* WILL be the conquest!!!
Boy - I gwt outta the house - promise me NOT to turn the volume knob past
3. Yess daddy
Daddy leaves the house..............................
Jochen
on the other hand, if the neighbours misbehave and continue their loud
parties at 4am... you can just wait till 8am, and tell your son: "here,
today you can practice your slap bass at max volume. I'm going for a walk,
have fun" ;-)

Jose
--
www.mcnach.com
Richt Hoat Chillies: http://www.myspace.com/rhcpscot - Bass: OLP MM2
Conscious Route: http://www.myspace.com/consciousroute - Bass: Warwick
Corvette $$
www.myspace.com/purplenoise68
-
Current favourite guitar: Fender 'Sambora' Stratocaster
Current favourite bass: Warwick Corvette $$
Misifus
2009-08-06 14:56:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get very
good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too much for
a practice amp. His teacher seemed to think a 20W model would be ok
for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!).
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume. So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
No, it's not too much. These amps come with a volume knob. If he has
trouble keeping it under control, surely you can point out to him when
he's let it get too loud.

-Raf
--
Misifus-
Rafael Seibert
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rafiii
home: http://www.rafandsioux.com
Brian Running
2009-08-06 15:13:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
If you're sure he's serious about it, and you won't be left regretting
having bought any amp at all because he decided to quit a couple weeks
later, then I don't think I'd buy the 20-Watt amp.

The next thing he's going to want to do is get together with his friends
and jam. There will be a drummer. 20 Watts will leave him inaudible,
helpless and very disappointed. You'll be shopping for another amp
before long. Take that $150 and put it into the 100-Watt amp now, which
will hold its own a lot better in a group, and can still be turned down
for practice. If he's not able to jam with his buds, he'll be more
likely to lose interest and instead turn to some really destructive
hobby, like fantasy football.

Even 100 Watts isn't a lot for bass, but at age 14, you sure don't want
to encourage volume wars. That'll come later, when the guitarists get
their own 100-Watters.
Steve Freides
2009-08-06 15:31:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get very
good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too much for
a practice amp. His teacher seemed to think a 20W model would be ok
for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!).
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume. So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
IMHO, and wearing my parent of musicians hat here, if your son already
has an amp that'll suffice for practice purposes, he doesn't need
another one of those. Get him an amp he can practice with and also play
rehearsals and small gigs with. All you have to do is not turn up the
volume control.

-S-
Baabin
2009-08-06 16:39:07 UTC
Permalink
Mark,

My understanding is a divide by three factor. To plat as loud as a 100 Watt
Guitar Amp you would need a 300 Watt Bass Amp.

I use a 175W Genz Benz Shuttle system (
http://www.genzbenz.com/?fa=detail&mid=2261&sid=610&cid=95) and think it
affords me both the power and portability for most situations short of
stadium work. With a 4ohm load it is good to 300 Watts.

Smitty


"markd" <***@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.

We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get very
good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too much for
a practice amp. His teacher seemed to think a 20W model would be ok
for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!).

My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume. So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
Benj
2009-08-06 16:44:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by markd
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume.  So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?  
Your understanding is correct. A 100 watt lead guitar amp can be used
to saw down trees with pure sound. A 100 watt bass amp is a small
combo barely suitable for coffeehouse and jazz gigs. For a practice
amp (and later a jamming with friends amp) a 100 watt amp is the way
to go. I practice with my 70 watt combo. I have a 20 watt practice amp
and it's only suitable for driving headphones. A nice combo in the
100 watt range is a double bang for the buck because it also is useful
for jams and latter open stage things unless he's into loud rock and
roll. And even then all he'll need is a DI to connect to the PA and
can use the combo as a stage monitor.

Bottom line (as others have said) is 100 watt combo is the one. The 20
watt sounds like a good idea but will work for little but quiet
practice, will discourage the love of bass, will not have resale
value, and won't work as he moves to jam with friends [bass tends to
get very boring when played alone]. nuff said.
Jose de las Heras
2009-08-06 17:25:39 UTC
Permalink
[bass tends to get very boring when played alone]. nuff said.
You must be my neighbour!!!

;-)

Jose
--
www.mcnach.com
Richt Hoat Chillies: http://www.myspace.com/rhcpscot - Bass: OLP MM2
Conscious Route: http://www.myspace.com/consciousroute - Bass: Warwick
Corvette $$
www.myspace.com/purplenoise68
-
Current favourite guitar: Fender 'Sambora' Stratocaster
Current favourite bass: Warwick Corvette $$
Mr Soul
2009-08-06 17:29:59 UTC
Permalink
I bought my 14-year old  son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing.  Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.  
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get very
good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too much for
a practice amp.  His teacher seemed to think a 20W model would be ok
for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!).  
If you I read your post corectly, you are updating your son's current
amp, not buying him a practice amp - is that correct?. Therefore, I
would suggest that you get at least a 100 watt amp. Can't he use his
current amp as the practice amp? I've got a 100 watt Ampeq B-100R
that is great for both practicing and doing small gigs.

Mr Soul
markd
2009-08-06 19:00:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mr Soul
I bought my 14-year old  son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing.  Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.  
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get very
good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too much for
a practice amp.  His teacher seemed to think a 20W model would be ok
for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!).  
If you I read your post corectly, you are updating your son's current
amp, not buying him a practice amp - is that correct?. Therefore, I
would suggest that you get at least a 100 watt amp. Can't he use his
current amp as the practice amp? I've got a 100 watt Ampeq B-100R
that is great for both practicing and doing small gigs.
Mr Soul
Yeah, he can use the smaller amp...but it really is low end that came
as part of a bass starter kit, and starts to buzz & distort quickly.

He's played much better/more powerful amps at music stores, and
definitely knows what he's missing.

I bought him a G&L Tribute 5 String, and him playing that through his
current amp is akin to me playing my LP through one of those mini
beltclip amps. ;-)
--D-y
2009-08-06 19:41:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by markd
Post by Mr Soul
I bought my 14-year old  son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing.  Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.  
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get very
good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too much for
a practice amp.  His teacher seemed to think a 20W model would be ok
for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!).  
If you I read your post corectly, you are updating your son's current
amp, not buying him a practice amp - is that correct?.  Therefore, I
would suggest that you get at least a 100 watt amp.  Can't he use his
current amp as the practice amp?  I've got a 100 watt Ampeq B-100R
that is great for both practicing and doing small gigs.
Mr Soul
Yeah, he can use the smaller amp...but it really is low end that came
as part of a bass starter kit, and starts to buzz & distort quickly.
He's played much better/more powerful amps at music stores, and
definitely knows what he's missing.
I bought him a G&L Tribute 5 String, and him playing that through his
current amp is akin to me playing my LP through one of those mini
beltclip amps.  ;-)
Lucky boy. I bought my own, first rig cost $335, while my bus boy
after-school and weekends job paid maybe $1.25 an hour (talkin' 1965
here).

Used stuff can be a good way to go. Including buying from a reputable
shop. Yeah, they have to get profit to keep the doors open, but their
checking out the used stuff and advice might well be worth it for a
newcomer.

This takes up an awful lot of "space" in the family environment, but
having a good-quality playback system and running it loud enough
(blasting not required) to hear notes and tone, and playing along,
with enough volume to get a real sound (not blasting, either), and
getting as close as you can to "notes" and "sound" is a big help. Gets
a new player started on stage presentation, where you try to blend
with other instruments and sound good in the room. As opposed to being
the Loudest <g>.

You like that Acoustic, look at the "bigger" ones, too. Ashdown, a
friend of mine has one of these, doing super in his Country band (not
a loud rock situation): <http://www.bassemporium.com/item.php?
sku=MAGC115300>

Add a 2-10 or single 12 ext. cab later on for more volume and more
high-end note definition.

IOW, get one amp he can use for a long time that won't be an
impediment when all of a sudden he finds a band to play with.

Lessons? Finding the right teacher can do wonders. I have another
friend whose son got started at a local music store on electric bass,
went on to play string bass in the school orchestra and still is
learning his rock, blues, "informal" music as well. That kind of music
education stays with you for life. --D-y
Kloka-mo'
2009-08-12 04:14:50 UTC
Permalink
I bet that if you play a 5 string through both types of amps, the obviously
choice will be easily heard.
--
-rob

O>
/(\)
^^
Post by markd
I bought him a G&L Tribute 5 String
Mike
2009-08-22 04:16:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by markd
Post by Mr Soul
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get very
good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too much for
a practice amp. His teacher seemed to think a 20W model would be ok
for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!).
If you I read your post corectly, you are updating your son's current
amp, not buying him a practice amp - is that correct?. Therefore, I
would suggest that you get at least a 100 watt amp. Can't he use his
current amp as the practice amp? I've got a 100 watt Ampeq B-100R
that is great for both practicing and doing small gigs.
Mr Soul
Yeah, he can use the smaller amp...but it really is low end that came
as part of a bass starter kit, and starts to buzz & distort quickly.
He's played much better/more powerful amps at music stores, and
definitely knows what he's missing.
I bought him a G&L Tribute 5 String, and him playing that through his
current amp is akin to me playing my LP through one of those mini
beltclip amps. ;-)
Then get him the 100w but make sure he mows the lawns at least once for each
watt. };o)

Les Cargill
2009-08-06 18:08:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get very
good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too much for
a practice amp. His teacher seemed to think a 20W model would be ok
for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!).
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume. So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
No.

--
Les Cargill
Jim
2009-08-06 18:19:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get very
good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too much for
a practice amp. His teacher seemed to think a 20W model would be ok
for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!).
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume. So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
100W = Overkill for bedroom, but usually not enough for a band.

I'd check craigslist, USED section of music store, pawn shops...

If I could get a deal on a 200 - 400W combo, I'd pick it up. Solid
state combos generally only put out roughly 60% of their full rating
without an extension speaker. Later, you could add a 4x10 with a horn,
and that'd bump the power rating up to full, and increase volume some
for band practice. (But doubling the power does NOT double the volume.
You need 10 time the power to double the volume.)

It has a volume control. If he doesn't keep it at a reasonable volume,
tell him it goes and he gets a 15W Behringer!!!

For guitarists with tube amps, wattage in WAY more important because we
tend to look for "the sweet spot" for the best distortion and speaker
tone. So even 50W in a tube amp would be insanely loud for a bedroom.
Solid state bass is a different issue.
markd
2009-08-06 19:12:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get very
good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too much for
a practice amp. His teacher seemed to think a 20W model would be ok
for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!).
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume. So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
100W = Overkill for bedroom, but usually not enough for a band.
I'd check craigslist, USED section of music store, pawn shops...
If I could get a deal on a 200 - 400W combo, I'd pick it up. Solid
state combos generally only put out roughly 60% of their full rating
without an extension speaker. Later, you could add a 4x10 with a horn,
and that'd bump the power rating up to full, and increase volume some
for band practice. (But doubling the power does NOT double the volume.
You need 10 time the power to double the volume.)
It has a volume control. If he doesn't keep it at a reasonable volume,
tell him it goes and he gets a 15W Behringer!!!
Or I'll lock up the new one and demand he play the cheapo one he has
now! ;)
Post by Jim
For guitarists with tube amps, wattage in WAY more important because we
tend to look for "the sweet spot" for the best distortion and speaker
tone. So even 50W in a tube amp would be insanely loud for a bedroom.
Solid state bass is a different issue.
He's definitely getting an SS amp. He's aware that after the new
guitar and amp, he's on his own for new gear. I remind him that my
first guitar 3+ decades ago was a no-name piece of junk I
hijacked/modified from my dad that was gathering dust (and caught hell
for that), built my first amp from a Heathkit catalog and my first
distortion 'pedal' I made from a kit that cost about $5.
ed s
2009-08-06 20:03:46 UTC
Permalink
I bought my 14-year old  son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing.  Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.  
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get very
good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too much for
a practice amp.  His teacher seemed to think a 20W model would be ok
for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!).  
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume.  So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?  
Should be excellent for a long time - It Will be TOO LOUD for a
bedroom but it has a volume knob if he learns to use it ( for when the
parents are around). Not Pro level for Rock Band but certinally good
enough for a youngster and his band if they all stay at reasonable
levels. Check for cracked plaster every now and then : ' ) - Ed
Phil W
2009-08-07 16:04:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by ed s
Should be excellent for a long time - It Will be TOO LOUD for a
bedroom but it has a volume knob if he learns to use it ( for when the
parents are around). Not Pro level for Rock Band but certinally good
enough for a youngster and his band if they all stay at reasonable
levels.
Hey, weŽre talking about a 14 year-old KID and his friends at the same age
here. If you really consider them to "stay at reasonable levels", youŽre far
away from reality. ;-)
Wecan do it
2009-08-07 16:33:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by ed s
Should be excellent for a long time - It Will be TOO LOUD
for a
bedroom but it has a volume knob if he learns to use it (
for when the
parents are around). Not Pro level for Rock Band but
certinally good
enough for a youngster and his band if they all stay at
reasonable
levels.
To the OP:

Please keep in mind you are asking the bass players who
were/are 14 and were/are on the receiving end of the
parental/spousal/neighborly/police bitching and moaning ever
since we got our first amps.

If it goes below 100 Hz , the walls, doors and windows in a
house are not going to do to much to attenuate the sound
coming from the amp. IF you do get him a hundred watter and he
begins to drive everyone around you crazy, then teach him to
play with the bass controls doing more attenuation than
boosting.

Let him walk around the house/yard while you pick the low E
string and hear just how loud it is outside of his room.

peace
dawg
Jess Band-ee-Coot
2009-08-07 16:48:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wecan do it
Post by ed s
Should be excellent for a long time - It Will be TOO LOUD
for a
bedroom but it has a volume knob if he learns to use it (
for when the
parents are around). Not Pro level for Rock Band but
certinally good
enough for a youngster and his band if they all stay at
reasonable
levels.
Please keep in mind you are asking the bass players who
were/are 14 and were/are on the receiving end of the
parental/spousal/neighborly/police bitching and moaning ever
since we got our first amps.
If it goes below 100 Hz , the walls, doors and windows in a
house are not going to do to much to attenuate the sound
coming from the amp. IF you do get him a hundred watter and he
begins to drive everyone around you crazy, then teach him to
play with the bass controls doing more attenuation than
boosting.
Let him walk around the house/yard while you pick the low E
string and hear just how loud it is outside of his room.
peace
dawg
Get him a Korg Pandora with a set of headphones and be done with it.
Christ, I've never seen so much pontificating about 100 watts before....
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"The good thing about a bee (I'm not talking about a Bumble Bee)
is that it stings once and then it dies.
I wish I could say the same for Steve Curtis.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Misifus
2009-08-07 22:39:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wecan do it
Post by ed s
Should be excellent for a long time - It Will be TOO LOUD
for a
bedroom but it has a volume knob if he learns to use it (
for when the
parents are around). Not Pro level for Rock Band but
certinally good
enough for a youngster and his band if they all stay at
reasonable
levels.
Please keep in mind you are asking the bass players who
were/are 14 and were/are on the receiving end of the
parental/spousal/neighborly/police bitching and moaning ever
since we got our first amps.
If it goes below 100 Hz , the walls, doors and windows in a
house are not going to do to much to attenuate the sound
coming from the amp. IF you do get him a hundred watter and he
begins to drive everyone around you crazy, then teach him to
play with the bass controls doing more attenuation than
boosting.
Let him walk around the house/yard while you pick the low E
string and hear just how loud it is outside of his room.
peace
dawg
There are boys and there are boys. Just because some fourteen year olds
can't be trusted to use good judgement doesn't mean others can't. No, I
wasn't an altar boy at that age, but I was a teacher, and I've known a
lot of boys that age. I expect his dad knows what the boy will and
won't do.

-Raf
--
Misifus-
Rafael Seibert
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rafiii
home: http://www.rafandsioux.com
ed s
2009-08-07 16:53:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by ed s
Should be excellent for a long time - It Will be TOO LOUD for a
bedroom but it has a volume knob if he learns to use it ( for when the
parents are around). Not Pro level for Rock Band but certinally good
enough for a youngster and his band if they all stay at reasonable
levels.
Hey, we´re talking about a 14 year-old KID and his friends at the same age
here. If you really consider them to "stay at reasonable levels", you´re far
away from reality. ;-)
Read closely - " but it has a volume knob if he learns to use it (for
when the parents are around)" !
I know that was me about 35 years ago! My parent where out & we were
Jamming in the living room.
They came home - Mom heard the racket - looked at the front window
flexing in and out - and decide to go back out for a while :' )
They were great parents - ed s.
Phil W
2009-08-07 19:16:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by ed s
Post by Phil W
Post by ed s
Should be excellent for a long time - It Will be TOO LOUD for a
bedroom but it has a volume knob if he learns to use it ( for when
the parents are around). Not Pro level for Rock Band but certinally
good enough for a youngster and his band if they all stay at
reasonable levels.
Hey, weŽre talking about a 14 year-old KID and his friends at the
same age here. If you really consider them to "stay at reasonable
levels", youŽre far away from reality. ;-)
Read closely
I did, but obviously you canŽt even think of the most obvious part in this
equation. Sorry, but you canŽt make that my mistake.
Post by ed s
- " but it has a volume knob if he learns to use it (for
when the parents are around)" !
Yes, I never said, there was no volume knob! But IŽve been a teenager and
also knew and know other teenagers. IF the volume knob goes to 10, they WILL
take every chance to go as close to max, as possible! And the point is: if
"10" means something around 30-40w, itŽs still more than enough to go deaf
and drive parents and neighbours mad; if "10" means 100w, it will be even
much more too loud for bedroom use. While it will usually too weak for
serious rockband use.
IMHO 100w bass amps are usually pretty senseless, cause every guitar player
with a cranked up 30w amp and distorted sound can (and will) easily drown
the bass.

BTW: I donŽt really see, where the problem of having 2 amps is. One small
and not-so-loud bedroom amp and a "big" amp for band stuff. When I played in
bands, the big rig stayed in the rehearsal space and the small amp stayed at
home. Sure, the small one sounds not as "full", as the big one, but yet good
enough to practice and have fun at home - at least for *my* personal taste
and needs... I still own my old practice 35w combo, that I got, when I
started. It has not yet made me not stick to playing bass, because of its
sound limitations, due to its size. And if todayŽs youth are too dumb to
understand the difference, they might be better off not playing music with
any instrument.

Is that clear enough, or should I explain it even more detailed? ;-)


Phil
JoeSpareBedroom
2009-08-06 20:21:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get very
good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too much for
a practice amp. His teacher seemed to think a 20W model would be ok
for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!).
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume. So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
I think it'll be easier to sell the 100W amp if he loses interest in it.
Sorry to sound fatalistic, but resale is often a factor.
Derek Tearne
2009-08-06 21:06:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
If you're considering a 20watt amp as an improvement over his current
amp one has to ask what he is playing through at the moment? Some wires
hanging out of a 1950's vintage transistor radio?

20 watts is about the bare minimum power for a bass practice amp - for
it to be an improvement over something else the something else must be
incredibly inadequate.

Useful bass combos for practice start in at probably 65 watts but 100
watts isn't unreasonable and will keep him going through teenage garage
band years or school jazz orchestra until he can afford to buy his own
gear.

If you buy him something that sounds good in the 100-150watt range you
won't need to buy him another combo. If you get him a 20watt 'practice'
amp you'll be buying him something else for christmas.

When shopping for combos it's also worth checking whether or not they
can handle an extension speaker cabinet. Many can't, but the ones that
do often specify the rating with the extension in use - So, your kid
thinks he's got 150 watts - but he's only about to use 90 in his bedroom
until you buy him the extension cab for his first gig.

Be careful though, some small combos - like behringer - disconnect the
internal speaker if you connect an external cab - you don't want this.

--- Derek
--
Derek Tearne - ***@url.co.nz
Vitamin S - improvisation from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.vitamin-s.co.nz/
jh
2009-08-06 21:36:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Tearne
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
If you're considering a 20watt amp as an improvement over his current
amp one has to ask what he is playing through at the moment? Some wires
hanging out of a 1950's vintage transistor radio?
20 watts is about the bare minimum power for a bass practice amp - for
it to be an improvement over something else the something else must be
incredibly inadequate.
Useful bass combos for practice start in at probably 65 watts but 100
watts isn't unreasonable and will keep him going through teenage garage
band years or school jazz orchestra until he can afford to buy his own
gear.
If you buy him something that sounds good in the 100-150watt range you
won't need to buy him another combo. If you get him a 20watt 'practice'
amp you'll be buying him something else for christmas.
When shopping for combos it's also worth checking whether or not they
can handle an extension speaker cabinet. Many can't, but the ones that
do often specify the rating with the extension in use - So, your kid
thinks he's got 150 watts - but he's only about to use 90 in his bedroom
until you buy him the extension cab for his first gig.
Be careful though, some small combos - like behringer - disconnect the
internal speaker if you connect an external cab - you don't want this.
--- Derek
Sorry, but the shear "Wattage is quality" discussion does not make sense
at all. You can have a real great 5W tube practising amp - bedroom or
koitchen or living room application that sounds good and is joy to play.
Believe me. I really prefer a "low Watt" but "good" amp instead of a
shitty "highwatt" - not hiwatt amp. BAnd context of course is a
different story.




Jochen

For
Les Cargill
2009-08-06 21:44:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by jh
Post by Derek Tearne
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
If you're considering a 20watt amp as an improvement over his current
amp one has to ask what he is playing through at the moment? Some wires
hanging out of a 1950's vintage transistor radio?
20 watts is about the bare minimum power for a bass practice amp - for
it to be an improvement over something else the something else must be
incredibly inadequate.
Useful bass combos for practice start in at probably 65 watts but 100
watts isn't unreasonable and will keep him going through teenage garage
band years or school jazz orchestra until he can afford to buy his own
gear.
If you buy him something that sounds good in the 100-150watt range you
won't need to buy him another combo. If you get him a 20watt 'practice'
amp you'll be buying him something else for christmas.
When shopping for combos it's also worth checking whether or not they
can handle an extension speaker cabinet. Many can't, but the ones that
do often specify the rating with the extension in use - So, your kid
thinks he's got 150 watts - but he's only about to use 90 in his bedroom
until you buy him the extension cab for his first gig.
Be careful though, some small combos - like behringer - disconnect the
internal speaker if you connect an external cab - you don't want this.
--- Derek
Sorry, but the shear "Wattage is quality" discussion does not make sense
at all.
For *bass* it makes complete sense. But the whole thread is a
"how long is a piece of string" thread, anyway.
Post by jh
You can have a real great 5W tube practising amp - bedroom or
koitchen or living room application that sounds good and is joy to play.
Believe me. I really prefer a "low Watt" but "good" amp instead of a
shitty "highwatt" - not hiwatt amp. BAnd context of course is a
different story.
Jochen
For
--
Les Cargill
Monkey Pi
2009-08-07 01:51:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Les Cargill
For *bass* it makes complete sense. But the whole thread is a
"how long is a piece of string" thread, anyway.
Actually, the group made it into that.
His question was simple. Buy the 20W or the 100W?
Now we've got people talking 450W amps when he said that he doubts the
kid will ever put a band together.

Monkey Pi
--
_ _
|o| o , o_,' o_, |o|
|O| <%'. _`'_ === <\_ |O|
(0) / | (_)`-' | / | (0)
p-----MonkeyMonkeyMonkey-----q
RichL
2009-08-07 02:02:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Monkey Pi
Post by Les Cargill
For *bass* it makes complete sense. But the whole thread is a
"how long is a piece of string" thread, anyway.
Actually, the group made it into that.
His question was simple. Buy the 20W or the 100W?
Now we've got people talking 450W amps when he said that he doubts the
kid will ever put a band together.
He didn't say that.

What he said was "my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!)."

And I prefaced my remarks with "Here's what I'd do, if he's really
serious and if he has the maturity to use the volume control as
intended."
jh
2009-08-07 06:07:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Les Cargill
Post by jh
Post by Derek Tearne
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
If you're considering a 20watt amp as an improvement over his current
amp one has to ask what he is playing through at the moment? Some wires
hanging out of a 1950's vintage transistor radio?
20 watts is about the bare minimum power for a bass practice amp - for
it to be an improvement over something else the something else must be
incredibly inadequate.
Useful bass combos for practice start in at probably 65 watts but 100
watts isn't unreasonable and will keep him going through teenage garage
band years or school jazz orchestra until he can afford to buy his own
gear.
If you buy him something that sounds good in the 100-150watt range you
won't need to buy him another combo. If you get him a 20watt 'practice'
amp you'll be buying him something else for christmas.
When shopping for combos it's also worth checking whether or not they
can handle an extension speaker cabinet. Many can't, but the ones that
do often specify the rating with the extension in use - So, your kid
thinks he's got 150 watts - but he's only about to use 90 in his bedroom
until you buy him the extension cab for his first gig. Be careful
though, some small combos - like behringer - disconnect the
internal speaker if you connect an external cab - you don't want this.
--- Derek
Sorry, but the shear "Wattage is quality" discussion does not make
sense at all.
For *bass* it makes complete sense. But the whole thread is a
"how long is a piece of string" thread, anyway.
Post by jh
You can have a real great 5W tube practising amp - bedroom or koitchen
or living room application that sounds good and is joy to play.
Believe me. I really prefer a "low Watt" but "good" amp instead of a
shitty "highwatt" - not hiwatt amp. BAnd context of course is a
different story.
Jochen
For
--
Les Cargill
Les,

i meant BASS. And for the practising context it is ok. And Watts are
ridiculous, when there is noone lse you want to "owerpower".

My girl plays her bass in the kitchen with a 2.5W Bluesmaster. The
glasses in the cupboard ar rattling. Tonal quality? almost anything
you'd xpect from an old Bassman 100 - nothing more nothing less.
Volume - more than enough. It's fun picking up the bass and practise.
What else is needed?

For a band context? Of course nonsense.

regards

Jochen
Les Cargill
2009-08-07 18:26:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by jh
Post by Les Cargill
Post by jh
Post by Derek Tearne
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
If you're considering a 20watt amp as an improvement over his current
amp one has to ask what he is playing through at the moment? Some wires
hanging out of a 1950's vintage transistor radio?
20 watts is about the bare minimum power for a bass practice amp - for
it to be an improvement over something else the something else must be
incredibly inadequate.
Useful bass combos for practice start in at probably 65 watts but 100
watts isn't unreasonable and will keep him going through teenage garage
band years or school jazz orchestra until he can afford to buy his own
gear.
If you buy him something that sounds good in the 100-150watt range you
won't need to buy him another combo. If you get him a 20watt 'practice'
amp you'll be buying him something else for christmas.
When shopping for combos it's also worth checking whether or not they
can handle an extension speaker cabinet. Many can't, but the ones that
do often specify the rating with the extension in use - So, your kid
thinks he's got 150 watts - but he's only about to use 90 in his bedroom
until you buy him the extension cab for his first gig. Be careful
though, some small combos - like behringer - disconnect the
internal speaker if you connect an external cab - you don't want this.
--- Derek
Sorry, but the shear "Wattage is quality" discussion does not make
sense at all.
For *bass* it makes complete sense. But the whole thread is a
"how long is a piece of string" thread, anyway.
Post by jh
You can have a real great 5W tube practising amp - bedroom or
koitchen or living room application that sounds good and is joy to
play. Believe me. I really prefer a "low Watt" but "good" amp instead
of a shitty "highwatt" - not hiwatt amp. BAnd context of course is a
different story.
Jochen
For
--
Les Cargill
Les,
i meant BASS. And for the practising context it is ok. And Watts are
ridiculous, when there is noone lse you want to "owerpower".
That's not true. My "practice amp" is the monitor rig on
my studio. It's 100W stereo.

20W bass amps are seen frequently on Craigslist. Unlike
low-wattage guitar amps... they're not worth much.
Post by jh
My girl plays her bass in the kitchen with a 2.5W Bluesmaster. The
glasses in the cupboard ar rattling. Tonal quality? almost anything
you'd xpect from an old Bassman 100 - nothing more nothing less.
I'm sure it works - but would you buy it now expressly as
a bass practice amp?
Post by jh
Volume - more than enough. It's fun picking up the bass and practise.
What else is needed?
For a band context? Of course nonsense.
regards
Jochen
--
Les Cargill
jh
2009-08-07 18:54:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Les Cargill
Post by jh
Post by Les Cargill
Post by jh
Post by Derek Tearne
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
If you're considering a 20watt amp as an improvement over his current
amp one has to ask what he is playing through at the moment? Some wires
hanging out of a 1950's vintage transistor radio?
20 watts is about the bare minimum power for a bass practice amp - for
it to be an improvement over something else the something else must be
incredibly inadequate.
Useful bass combos for practice start in at probably 65 watts but 100
watts isn't unreasonable and will keep him going through teenage garage
band years or school jazz orchestra until he can afford to buy his own
gear.
If you buy him something that sounds good in the 100-150watt range you
won't need to buy him another combo. If you get him a 20watt 'practice'
amp you'll be buying him something else for christmas.
When shopping for combos it's also worth checking whether or not they
can handle an extension speaker cabinet. Many can't, but the ones that
do often specify the rating with the extension in use - So, your kid
thinks he's got 150 watts - but he's only about to use 90 in his bedroom
until you buy him the extension cab for his first gig. Be careful
though, some small combos - like behringer - disconnect the
internal speaker if you connect an external cab - you don't want this.
--- Derek
Sorry, but the shear "Wattage is quality" discussion does not make
sense at all.
For *bass* it makes complete sense. But the whole thread is a
"how long is a piece of string" thread, anyway.
Post by jh
You can have a real great 5W tube practising amp - bedroom or
koitchen or living room application that sounds good and is joy to
play. Believe me. I really prefer a "low Watt" but "good" amp
instead of a shitty "highwatt" - not hiwatt amp. BAnd context of
course is a different story.
Jochen
For
--
Les Cargill
Les,
i meant BASS. And for the practising context it is ok. And Watts are
ridiculous, when there is noone lse you want to "owerpower".
That's not true. My "practice amp" is the monitor rig on
my studio. It's 100W stereo.
20W bass amps are seen frequently on Craigslist. Unlike
low-wattage guitar amps... they're not worth much.
Post by jh
My girl plays her bass in the kitchen with a 2.5W Bluesmaster. The
glasses in the cupboard ar rattling. Tonal quality? almost anything
you'd xpect from an old Bassman 100 - nothing more nothing less.
I'm sure it works - but would you buy it now expressly as
a bass practice amp?
Post by jh
Volume - more than enough. It's fun picking up the bass and practise.
What else is needed?
For a band context? Of course nonsense.
regards
Jochen
--
Les Cargill
If they were still cheap and I heard the rig before - propably yes.

I had the idea to try it, when my girlfriend began to play bass. I just
gathered together whatever was there. When I heard it the first time, my
jaws knocked down - really.

The Hughes and Kettner IS basicly a EL84 SE power amp with a front end
very similar to the black and silver face fenders.
When the boy finally starts playing in a band and his style gets
settled, he still has more than enough time to get a bigger amp. But
then a 20W won't do it either.
Anyway: from a logistical aspect two rigs ain't that bad. Hauling a real
bass amp is IMHO always a PITA.

IMHO for home use a "small but good" tube amp with a speaker that can
support it frequency- and efficiency-wise is a perfect solution.


Just my opinion.

regards

Jochen
Derek Tearne
2009-08-07 00:59:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by jh
Sorry, but the shear "Wattage is quality" discussion does not make sense
at all. You can have a real great 5W tube practising amp - bedroom or
koitchen or living room application that sounds good and is joy to play.
For bass or guitar?

You can have a great time practising with a 5w pignose practise amp for
guitar - and an AC30 valve guitar amp can make an awful lot of noise -
no one with ears would dispute that.

However, in 30 years of playing I've never come across any 5w amp, tube
or solid state, that didn't sound like a wet fart for bass.

If you know of such an amp please tell us what it is so we can all try
one out.

--- Derek
--
Derek Tearne - ***@url.co.nz
Vitamin S - improvisation from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.vitamin-s.co.nz/
jh
2009-08-07 06:10:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Tearne
Post by jh
Sorry, but the shear "Wattage is quality" discussion does not make sense
at all. You can have a real great 5W tube practising amp - bedroom or
koitchen or living room application that sounds good and is joy to play.
For bass or guitar?
You can have a great time practising with a 5w pignose practise amp for
guitar - and an AC30 valve guitar amp can make an awful lot of noise -
no one with ears would dispute that.
However, in 30 years of playing I've never come across any 5w amp, tube
or solid state, that didn't sound like a wet fart for bass.
If you know of such an amp please tell us what it is so we can all try
one out.
--- Derek
in a pure "practising" context - for example a Hughes&Kettner
bluesmaster with a 12" Jensen.

With all due respct, but you are comparing apples with oranges. If you
chose a small amp, pleas mate it with a speaker that's got enough cone
area. What does the pignose have? 5"?
#

Jochen
Brian Running
2009-08-07 19:30:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by jh
With all due respct, but you are comparing apples with oranges. If you
chose a small amp, pleas mate it with a speaker that's got enough cone
area.
I liked your theory, so I'm currently practicing through an old
Electro-Voice 30" driver powered by the amp in my iPod, which I reckon
is around 300 mW. I don't know, Jochen -- the results are less than
impressive. Am I comparing apples with something else, maybe? Pears?
Cherries?
Monkey Pi
2009-08-07 20:04:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Running
Post by jh
With all due respct, but you are comparing apples with oranges. If you
chose a small amp, pleas mate it with a speaker that's got enough cone
area.
I liked your theory, so I'm currently practicing through an old
Electro-Voice 30" driver powered by the amp in my iPod, which I reckon
is around 300 mW. I don't know, Jochen -- the results are less than
impressive. Am I comparing apples with something else, maybe? Pears?
Cherries?
Nice try, but that 30" driver is never going to cut it in some kid's
unlikely and imaginary bedroom band. He's going to need at least 50" -
100" which means he needs like 30 iPods to act as amps. How's he gonna
fit enough kids to borrow 30 iPods into his bedroom?

Monkey Pi
--
_ _
|o| o , o_,' o_, |o|
|O| <%'. _`'_ === <\_ |O|
(0) / | (_)`-' | / | (0)
p-----MonkeyMonkeyMonkey-----q
Benj
2009-08-07 20:11:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Monkey Pi
Nice try, but that 30" driver is never going to cut it in some kid's
unlikely and imaginary bedroom band. He's going to need at least 50" -
100" which means he needs like 30 iPods to act as amps. How's he gonna
fit enough kids to borrow 30 iPods into his bedroom?
Hey wait a minute! I've SEEN that speaker. I believe it was in one of
the "back to the future" movies!
Sir Lurksalot
2009-08-08 03:28:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Monkey Pi
Nice try, but that 30" driver is never going to cut it in some kid's
unlikely and imaginary bedroom band. He's going to need at least 50" -
100" which means he needs like 30 iPods to act as amps. How's he gonna
fit enough kids to borrow 30 iPods into his bedroom?
Hey wait a minute! I've SEEN that speaker. I believe it was in one of
the "back to the future" movies!

========================================================================
That speaker was a 48" Electro-Dynamics Bald Eagle, the one with the 300lb
neodymium magnet, powered by a 2.2 jigawatt Cervix Vega amp.
jh
2009-08-08 06:57:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Benj
Post by Monkey Pi
Nice try, but that 30" driver is never going to cut it in some kid's
unlikely and imaginary bedroom band. He's going to need at least 50" -
100" which means he needs like 30 iPods to act as amps. How's he gonna
fit enough kids to borrow 30 iPods into his bedroom?
Hey wait a minute! I've SEEN that speaker. I believe it was in one of
the "back to the future" movies!
But that was not a bass, it was a guitar, or a banana?
Les Cargill
2009-08-08 07:02:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by jh
Post by Benj
Post by Monkey Pi
Nice try, but that 30" driver is never going to cut it in some kid's
unlikely and imaginary bedroom band. He's going to need at least 50" -
100" which means he needs like 30 iPods to act as amps. How's he gonna
fit enough kids to borrow 30 iPods into his bedroom?
Hey wait a minute! I've SEEN that speaker. I believe it was in one of
the "back to the future" movies!
But that was not a bass, it was a guitar, or a banana?
I think it was a movie. But that's not important right
now.

--
Les Cargill
jh
2009-08-08 06:58:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Running
Post by jh
With all due respct, but you are comparing apples with oranges. If you
chose a small amp, pleas mate it with a speaker that's got enough cone
area.
I liked your theory, so I'm currently practicing through an old
Electro-Voice 30" driver powered by the amp in my iPod, which I reckon
is around 300 mW. I don't know, Jochen -- the results are less than
impressive. Am I comparing apples with something else, maybe? Pears?
Cherries?
thanks for ridiculing my post.
Les Cargill
2009-08-08 07:01:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by jh
Post by Brian Running
Post by jh
With all due respct, but you are comparing apples with oranges. If
you chose a small amp, pleas mate it with a speaker that's got enough
cone area.
I liked your theory, so I'm currently practicing through an old
Electro-Voice 30" driver powered by the amp in my iPod, which I reckon
is around 300 mW. I don't know, Jochen -- the results are less than
impressive. Am I comparing apples with something else, maybe? Pears?
Cherries?
thanks for ridiculing my post.
You should find in here somewhere where I accused
the thread of devolving into a "how long is a piece
of string" thread.

This is what happens after that. Don't take it personally.

--
Les Cargill
Brian Running
2009-08-08 11:52:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by jh
thanks for ridiculing my post.
Don't mention it, my pleasure! You gave me an opening, so I took it.
Just do me a favor, please, please, please don't let this thread stop
its plunge into the ever-more absurd. It's just starting to get
entertaining, let's see how ridiculous it can really get.
RichL
2009-08-08 13:45:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Running
Post by jh
thanks for ridiculing my post.
Don't mention it, my pleasure! You gave me an opening, so I took it.
Just do me a favor, please, please, please don't let this thread stop
its plunge into the ever-more absurd. It's just starting to get
entertaining, let's see how ridiculous it can really get.
Sarcasm simply doesn't suit you, Brian.

Did you notice that this thread is crossposted to AGA?

In case it matters, Jochen is a well-respected amp guy who posts
regularly to AGA and is one of the few *competent* amp guys in the group
who mainly stays away from all the political nonsense that goes on here.
Benj
2009-08-09 05:40:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichL
Sarcasm simply doesn't suit you, Brian.
Did you notice that this thread is crossposted to AGA?
Oh CRAP! Here, let me help you out Brian! Did anyone notice the
speed with which Obamites and Dumbocrats have skyrocketed the national
debt under the usual cover of an "emergency" And don't forget that
they all know that per the 14th Amendment the "validity of the public
debt of the United States ... shall not be questioned." Period. Fraud
is NOT an exception....
Post by RichL
In case it matters, Jochen is a well-respected amp guy who posts
regularly to AGA and is one of the few *competent* amp guys in the group
who mainly stays away from all the political nonsense that goes on here.
No political "nonsense" in AGA? Well shame! How in the world can he
be "well-respected" in that group?
Phil W
2009-08-08 13:09:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by jh
thanks for ridiculing my post.
isnŽt that, what this group is actually all about? somebody prove me wrong,
but such behaviour seems normal here.
Derek Tearne
2009-08-08 12:19:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by jh
in a pure "practising" context - for example a Hughes&Kettner
bluesmaster with a 12" Jensen.
From what I gather from the interwebs the bluesmaster is designed to
produce saturated overdriven sounds - although for some bass players
that may be a joyous tone, most bass players prefer something rather
cleaner. I suspect that the tone of a blues master in a 12" jensen
would indeed be that wet fart sound I was describing earlier. It is (or
was) rather pricier than someone would consider paying for a practice
amp.

My first bass combo was a 20watt tube amp through something like a 10"
speaker. I wouldn't recommend that kind of set up for someone starting
out now.

--- Derek
--
Derek Tearne - ***@url.co.nz
Vitamin S - improvisation from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.vitamin-s.co.nz/
jh
2009-08-08 21:06:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Tearne
Post by jh
in a pure "practising" context - for example a Hughes&Kettner
bluesmaster with a 12" Jensen.
From what I gather from the interwebs the bluesmaster is designed to
produce saturated overdriven sounds - although for some bass players
that may be a joyous tone, most bass players prefer something rather
cleaner. I suspect that the tone of a blues master in a 12" jensen
would indeed be that wet fart sound I was describing earlier. It is (or
was) rather pricier than someone would consider paying for a practice
amp.
My first bass combo was a 20watt tube amp through something like a 10"
speaker. I wouldn't recommend that kind of set up for someone starting
out now.
--- Derek
Derek,
I see you never played one. It has got a gain and a master volume.

As any amp high settings of the master and low settings of the gain
yield merely undistorted tones.

As already I said, its design is very close to a Bassman 100, with a
small power amp. I own both, and the sounds are really close. The
achievable loudness is of course different.

my oh my


Jochen
Derek Tearne
2009-08-09 04:49:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by jh
Derek,
I see you never played one. It has got a gain and a master volume.
Considering Hughes and Kettner stuff didn't even start appearing in New
Zealand until after this was discontinued that would be a no.
Post by jh
As already I said, its design is very close to a Bassman 100, with a
small power amp. I own both, and the sounds are really close. The
achievable loudness is of course different.
Let us assume for a moment that this bluesmaster 5 watt amp through a
jensen 12 sounds really close to the tone of a bassman 100 - albeit
quieter - and that the tone of a bassman 100 is something to be
considered good.

Remember, we're giving advice to someone who wants to buy a practice amp
for his kid that is better than what he has already, and wonders if 100
watt is too much.

Fender bassman 100 - available in stores for $399

Hughes and Kettner BluesMaster - not available in stores for something
like a decade - but apparently retailed at ~$350
Jensen 12" speaker - I dunno - $50 + the cost of a cabinet...

Tone - according to jochen - identical.

The answer, at least to me, is pretty clear.

Buy the bassman 100 - the tone is (apparently) the same, the warranty
and availability is better, it's small enough to fit in a bedroom, and
it will facilitate musical fun with friends much better than a 20watt
valve combo - and based on the quality of real world starter pack and
low wattage combos (which is what I assume the kid has at the moment) -
there really isn't anything available on the market that will be
noticeably better until you get to the 65-100 watt offerings.

The only advantage of the bluesmaster over the bassman is that the kid
won't be able to deafen himself or his neighbours with it. Now, that
may actually be a major advantage, but the same result can be achieved
by simply not 'upgrading' the current practice amp.

--- Derek
--
Derek Tearne - ***@url.co.nz
Vitamin S - improvisation from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.vitamin-s.co.nz/
jh
2009-08-09 08:13:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Tearne
Post by jh
Derek,
I see you never played one. It has got a gain and a master volume.
Considering Hughes and Kettner stuff didn't even start appearing in New
Zealand until after this was discontinued that would be a no.
Post by jh
As already I said, its design is very close to a Bassman 100, with a
small power amp. I own both, and the sounds are really close. The
achievable loudness is of course different.
Let us assume for a moment that this bluesmaster 5 watt amp through a
jensen 12 sounds really close to the tone of a bassman 100 - albeit
quieter - and that the tone of a bassman 100 is something to be
considered good.
Remember, we're giving advice to someone who wants to buy a practice amp
for his kid that is better than what he has already, and wonders if 100
watt is too much.
Fender bassman 100 - available in stores for $399
Hughes and Kettner BluesMaster - not available in stores for something
like a decade - but apparently retailed at ~$350
Jensen 12" speaker - I dunno - $50 + the cost of a cabinet...
Tone - according to jochen - identical.
The answer, at least to me, is pretty clear.
Buy the bassman 100 - the tone is (apparently) the same, the warranty
and availability is better, it's small enough to fit in a bedroom, and
it will facilitate musical fun with friends much better than a 20watt
valve combo - and based on the quality of real world starter pack and
low wattage combos (which is what I assume the kid has at the moment) -
there really isn't anything available on the market that will be
noticeably better until you get to the 65-100 watt offerings.
The only advantage of the bluesmaster over the bassman is that the kid
won't be able to deafen himself or his neighbours with it. Now, that
may actually be a major advantage, but the same result can be achieved
by simply not 'upgrading' the current practice amp.
--- Derek
If you could get a Vintage Bassman 100 for 399 $ sure, then it' would be
a no brainer. Over here they go easily for 800-900 Euros....

But i bet this wasn't eve the initial question.


Jochen
Derek Tearne
2009-08-09 08:44:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by jh
If you could get a Vintage Bassman 100 for 399 $ sure, then it' would be
a no brainer. Over here they go easily for 800-900 Euros....
But i bet this wasn't eve the initial question.
"Should I get a vintage bassman 100 or a discontinued Hughes and Kettner
bluesmaster and one of those lovely jensen 12" speakers for my 14 year
old son to replace his started pack combo?".

Hmmm. I think we can be safe in the assumption that it wasn't.

Pity though, that would have been a much more interesting question.

--- Derek
--
Derek Tearne - ***@url.co.nz
Vitamin S - improvisation from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.vitamin-s.co.nz/
jh
2009-08-09 13:18:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Tearne
Post by jh
If you could get a Vintage Bassman 100 for 399 $ sure, then it' would be
a no brainer. Over here they go easily for 800-900 Euros....
But i bet this wasn't eve the initial question.
"Should I get a vintage bassman 100 or a discontinued Hughes and Kettner
bluesmaster and one of those lovely jensen 12" speakers for my 14 year
old son to replace his started pack combo?".
Hmmm. I think we can be safe in the assumption that it wasn't.
Pity though, that would have been a much more interesting question.
--- Derek
Hi Derek,

if you're really interested in this discussion, then it would be really
nice, if you ommited those colourful words like "whimpy", "lovely" etc.
BTW the bassman is also discontinued IIRC.

The jensen - BTW it's simply an italian "Reissue" Alnico P12R was just
there. I don't consider it "lovely". To be honest, it was the OEM
speaker of my Victoria 5E3 and i replaced it immediately with a
Celestion. I simply hated this speaker.... The cab is a line6 return,
that I got for 0,00 EUR because it's got a crack at one edge. The
bluesmaster or crunch master was just here too, i got it years ago,
someone really wanted to sell it to me for then 50 deutschmarks,
propably about 25 US$. So the experiment was just reycling existing
parts. You might call it a collection of junk box items.

In my very honest, but humble opinion, i'm almost sure this setup might
be a real improvement to a crappy 15W starter box sand amp. But to be
honest again, the only one who can judge it, is the boy who is expected
to dump his "starter".

Remember the "student line" of Fender? Princetons, Deluxes e.a.. In the
old days everyone thought he'd "improve" to a much more expensive Twin
Reverb, today the student amps fetch even more money on ebay as the old
"professional" amps.

Get back to the H&K vs Bassman discussion. IMHO the bassman is still a
great amp. If you run it at home, at low volume it's also great. The
only thing you might take into consideration is the wear of four 6L6s,
the possible use as a space heater and the added power consumption.
Aside that, it takes up a little bit more space than the H&K
For the parents there is the danger, that the youngster plays too loud,
when not under "observation".

Of course you might take the Bassman and a cab to a gig and the H&K is
not capable of pushing enough air. Especially with the
bluesmaster/crunchmaster, you could easily hook it up to a big SS power
amp and have the same sound as you have at home (if you like it) just
louder... or you could inject it to a console.

Just one last "marketing" for the little H&K. I'm sure youve heard about
the old 400PS Fenders. The concept is very comparable. You have the old
channel scheme of a SF Fender, feeding a low power power stage (6L6 in
triode mode) and the you let some big 6550A - a Sextett if all the
available clean 435W RMS have to mobilized - push the volume.

I don't know whether i would throw 200-300$ over the table to get a H&K
today, if i could have the Bassman for almost the same price. On the
other hand the additional options of the little guy - handy package, di,
preamp, power amp, speaker simulation have served me well over the last
few years.

Thus i have to express my opinion - this little unit is far away from
being a toy. I'm also lucky, that I don't have to decide for myself, i
have them both ;-)

regards

Jochen
Brian Running
2009-08-09 15:38:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by jh
Post by Derek Tearne
Post by jh
If you could get a Vintage Bassman 100 for 399 $ sure, then it' would be
a no brainer. Over here they go easily for 800-900 Euros....
But i bet this wasn't eve the initial question.
"Should I get a vintage bassman 100 or a discontinued Hughes and Kettner
bluesmaster and one of those lovely jensen 12" speakers for my 14 year
old son to replace his started pack combo?".
Hmmm. I think we can be safe in the assumption that it wasn't.
Pity though, that would have been a much more interesting question.
--- Derek
Hi Derek,
if you're really interested in this discussion, then it would be really
nice, if you ommited those colourful words like "whimpy", "lovely" etc.
BTW the bassman is also discontinued IIRC.
The jensen - BTW it's simply an italian "Reissue" Alnico P12R was just
there. I don't consider it "lovely". To be honest, it was the OEM
speaker of my Victoria 5E3 and i replaced it immediately with a
Celestion. I simply hated this speaker.... The cab is a line6 return,
that I got for 0,00 EUR because it's got a crack at one edge. The
bluesmaster or crunch master was just here too, i got it years ago,
someone really wanted to sell it to me for then 50 deutschmarks,
propably about 25 US$. So the experiment was just reycling existing
parts. You might call it a collection of junk box items.
In my very honest, but humble opinion, i'm almost sure this setup might
be a real improvement to a crappy 15W starter box sand amp. But to be
honest again, the only one who can judge it, is the boy who is expected
to dump his "starter".
Remember the "student line" of Fender? Princetons, Deluxes e.a.. In the
old days everyone thought he'd "improve" to a much more expensive Twin
Reverb, today the student amps fetch even more money on ebay as the old
"professional" amps.
Get back to the H&K vs Bassman discussion. IMHO the bassman is still a
great amp. If you run it at home, at low volume it's also great. The
only thing you might take into consideration is the wear of four 6L6s,
the possible use as a space heater and the added power consumption.
Aside that, it takes up a little bit more space than the H&K
For the parents there is the danger, that the youngster plays too loud,
when not under "observation".
Of course you might take the Bassman and a cab to a gig and the H&K is
not capable of pushing enough air. Especially with the
bluesmaster/crunchmaster, you could easily hook it up to a big SS power
amp and have the same sound as you have at home (if you like it) just
louder... or you could inject it to a console.
Just one last "marketing" for the little H&K. I'm sure youve heard about
the old 400PS Fenders. The concept is very comparable. You have the old
channel scheme of a SF Fender, feeding a low power power stage (6L6 in
triode mode) and the you let some big 6550A - a Sextett if all the
available clean 435W RMS have to mobilized - push the volume.
I don't know whether i would throw 200-300$ over the table to get a H&K
today, if i could have the Bassman for almost the same price. On the
other hand the additional options of the little guy - handy package, di,
preamp, power amp, speaker simulation have served me well over the last
few years.
Thus i have to express my opinion - this little unit is far away from
being a toy. I'm also lucky, that I don't have to decide for myself, i
have them both ;-)
Fascinating. Simply fascinating. Can't get enough of this real-world
expertise! Lessee, now, what was the question, again?
RichL
2009-08-09 16:00:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Running
Post by jh
Post by Derek Tearne
Post by jh
If you could get a Vintage Bassman 100 for 399 $ sure, then it'
would be a no brainer. Over here they go easily for 800-900
Euros....
But i bet this wasn't eve the initial question.
"Should I get a vintage bassman 100 or a discontinued Hughes and
Kettner bluesmaster and one of those lovely jensen 12" speakers for
my 14 year old son to replace his started pack combo?".
Hmmm. I think we can be safe in the assumption that it wasn't.
Pity though, that would have been a much more interesting question.
--- Derek
Hi Derek,
if you're really interested in this discussion, then it would be
really nice, if you ommited those colourful words like "whimpy",
"lovely" etc. BTW the bassman is also discontinued IIRC.
The jensen - BTW it's simply an italian "Reissue" Alnico P12R was
just there. I don't consider it "lovely". To be honest, it was the
OEM speaker of my Victoria 5E3 and i replaced it immediately with a
Celestion. I simply hated this speaker.... The cab is a line6 return,
that I got for 0,00 EUR because it's got a crack at one edge. The
bluesmaster or crunch master was just here too, i got it years ago,
someone really wanted to sell it to me for then 50 deutschmarks,
propably about 25 US$. So the experiment was just reycling existing
parts. You might call it a collection of junk box items.
In my very honest, but humble opinion, i'm almost sure this setup
might be a real improvement to a crappy 15W starter box sand amp.
But to be honest again, the only one who can judge it, is the boy
who is expected to dump his "starter".
Remember the "student line" of Fender? Princetons, Deluxes e.a.. In
the old days everyone thought he'd "improve" to a much more
expensive Twin Reverb, today the student amps fetch even more money
on ebay as the old "professional" amps.
Get back to the H&K vs Bassman discussion. IMHO the bassman is still
a great amp. If you run it at home, at low volume it's also great.
The only thing you might take into consideration is the wear of four
6L6s, the possible use as a space heater and the added power
consumption. Aside that, it takes up a little bit more space than
the H&K
For the parents there is the danger, that the youngster plays too
loud, when not under "observation".
Of course you might take the Bassman and a cab to a gig and the H&K
is not capable of pushing enough air. Especially with the
bluesmaster/crunchmaster, you could easily hook it up to a big SS
power amp and have the same sound as you have at home (if you like
it) just louder... or you could inject it to a console.
Just one last "marketing" for the little H&K. I'm sure youve heard
about the old 400PS Fenders. The concept is very comparable. You
have the old channel scheme of a SF Fender, feeding a low power
power stage (6L6 in triode mode) and the you let some big 6550A - a
Sextett if all the available clean 435W RMS have to mobilized - push
the volume.
I don't know whether i would throw 200-300$ over the table to get a
H&K today, if i could have the Bassman for almost the same price. On
the other hand the additional options of the little guy - handy
package, di, preamp, power amp, speaker simulation have served me
well over the last few years.
Thus i have to express my opinion - this little unit is far away from
being a toy. I'm also lucky, that I don't have to decide for myself,
i have them both ;-)
Fascinating. Simply fascinating. Can't get enough of this real-world
expertise! Lessee, now, what was the question, again?
I'm just speculating, of course, but I'm wondering whether anyone else
gets the impression that Brian may have lost his last court case and is
assuaging his wounded ego by playing Internet Asshole?
jh
2009-08-09 21:06:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Running
Post by jh
Post by Derek Tearne
Post by jh
If you could get a Vintage Bassman 100 for 399 $ sure, then it' would be
a no brainer. Over here they go easily for 800-900 Euros....
But i bet this wasn't eve the initial question.
"Should I get a vintage bassman 100 or a discontinued Hughes and Kettner
bluesmaster and one of those lovely jensen 12" speakers for my 14 year
old son to replace his started pack combo?".
Hmmm. I think we can be safe in the assumption that it wasn't.
Pity though, that would have been a much more interesting question.
--- Derek
Hi Derek,
if you're really interested in this discussion, then it would be
really nice, if you ommited those colourful words like "whimpy",
"lovely" etc. BTW the bassman is also discontinued IIRC.
The jensen - BTW it's simply an italian "Reissue" Alnico P12R was just
there. I don't consider it "lovely". To be honest, it was the OEM
speaker of my Victoria 5E3 and i replaced it immediately with a
Celestion. I simply hated this speaker.... The cab is a line6 return,
that I got for 0,00 EUR because it's got a crack at one edge. The
bluesmaster or crunch master was just here too, i got it years ago,
someone really wanted to sell it to me for then 50 deutschmarks,
propably about 25 US$. So the experiment was just reycling existing
parts. You might call it a collection of junk box items.
In my very honest, but humble opinion, i'm almost sure this setup
might be a real improvement to a crappy 15W starter box sand amp. But
to be honest again, the only one who can judge it, is the boy who is
expected to dump his "starter".
Remember the "student line" of Fender? Princetons, Deluxes e.a.. In
the old days everyone thought he'd "improve" to a much more expensive
Twin Reverb, today the student amps fetch even more money on ebay as
the old "professional" amps.
Get back to the H&K vs Bassman discussion. IMHO the bassman is still a
great amp. If you run it at home, at low volume it's also great. The
only thing you might take into consideration is the wear of four 6L6s,
the possible use as a space heater and the added power consumption.
Aside that, it takes up a little bit more space than the H&K
For the parents there is the danger, that the youngster plays too
loud, when not under "observation".
Of course you might take the Bassman and a cab to a gig and the H&K is
not capable of pushing enough air. Especially with the
bluesmaster/crunchmaster, you could easily hook it up to a big SS
power amp and have the same sound as you have at home (if you like it)
just louder... or you could inject it to a console.
Just one last "marketing" for the little H&K. I'm sure youve heard
about the old 400PS Fenders. The concept is very comparable. You have
the old channel scheme of a SF Fender, feeding a low power power stage
(6L6 in triode mode) and the you let some big 6550A - a Sextett if all
the available clean 435W RMS have to mobilized - push the volume.
I don't know whether i would throw 200-300$ over the table to get a
H&K today, if i could have the Bassman for almost the same price. On
the other hand the additional options of the little guy - handy
package, di, preamp, power amp, speaker simulation have served me well
over the last few years.
Thus i have to express my opinion - this little unit is far away from
being a toy. I'm also lucky, that I don't have to decide for myself, i
have them both ;-)
Fascinating. Simply fascinating. Can't get enough of this real-world
expertise! Lessee, now, what was the question, again?
Thanks

over and out
Derek Tearne
2009-08-09 21:36:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by jh
if you're really interested in this discussion, then it would be really
nice, if you ommited those colourful words like "whimpy", "lovely" etc.
BTW the bassman is also discontinued IIRC.
Why? The words are there to use...

You can go into a shop and buy a bassman 100 - it might not be the one
you were thinking about, but it looks exactly perfect as a practice amp
suitable for playing out with friends. Exactly the kind of thing the
original poster was asking about. Is it too big for the bedroom? With
a single 10" in a compact combo it would appear just about perfect.

As for the vintage bassman 100 - isn't that the one ended up being used
primarily by lead guitarists?
Post by jh
The jensen - BTW it's simply an italian "Reissue" Alnico P12R was just
there. I don't consider it "lovely". To be honest, it was the OEM
speaker of my Victoria 5E3 and i replaced it immediately with a
Celestion. I simply hated this speaker....
And here you find the reason why I used the word 'lovely' - I was going
to use the word crappy - which is the term most often associated with
them - but felt that would be a bit unfair.
Post by jh
I don't know whether i would throw 200-300$ over the table to get a H&K
today, if i could have the Bassman for almost the same price. On the
other hand the additional options of the little guy - handy package, di,
preamp, power amp, speaker simulation have served me well over the last
few years.
It sounds like a very useful pro level piece of equipment - and googling
suggests that they also made a bass specific version. But this is
straying almost as far from commercially available and appropriate
practice combos as the guy who suggested an ampeg SVT with monster
stack.

--- Derek
--
Derek Tearne - ***@url.co.nz
Vitamin S - improvisation from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.vitamin-s.co.nz/
jh
2009-08-09 22:04:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Tearne
Post by jh
if you're really interested in this discussion, then it would be really
nice, if you ommited those colourful words like "whimpy", "lovely" etc.
BTW the bassman is also discontinued IIRC.
Why? The words are there to use...
You can go into a shop and buy a bassman 100 - it might not be the one
you were thinking about, but it looks exactly perfect as a practice amp
suitable for playing out with friends. Exactly the kind of thing the
original poster was asking about. Is it too big for the bedroom? With
a single 10" in a compact combo it would appear just about perfect.
As for the vintage bassman 100 - isn't that the one ended up being used
primarily by lead guitarists?
Post by jh
The jensen - BTW it's simply an italian "Reissue" Alnico P12R was just
there. I don't consider it "lovely". To be honest, it was the OEM
speaker of my Victoria 5E3 and i replaced it immediately with a
Celestion. I simply hated this speaker....
And here you find the reason why I used the word 'lovely' - I was going
to use the word crappy - which is the term most often associated with
them - but felt that would be a bit unfair.
Post by jh
I don't know whether i would throw 200-300$ over the table to get a H&K
today, if i could have the Bassman for almost the same price. On the
other hand the additional options of the little guy - handy package, di,
preamp, power amp, speaker simulation have served me well over the last
few years.
It sounds like a very useful pro level piece of equipment - and googling
suggests that they also made a bass specific version. But this is
straying almost as far from commercially available and appropriate
practice combos as the guy who suggested an ampeg SVT with monster
stack.
--- Derek
the HK was simply the living example that even a small tube amp can do
the job. OK?

this particular unit shares the input stages and tone controls and the
basic sound shaping with the old SilverFace Fenders. This was why i
mentioned the Bassman 100. OK?

And - no this "Bassman 100" is NOT the Bassman 6stringers love. This
particular bassman was the old 4x10 tweed. OO

Your "Bassman 100" is just a new amp from a company the used to know how
to make amps in the past. It's definitely not the amp i am talking
about. And after I have heard a real good bass guy play one of them, i
can't understand why *you* even bother about that POS. If someone asked
me whether he should buy THIS amp, I'd simply smile and waive.

Don't get me wrong, although I'm a convinced tube fanatic, I know that
there are real good SS amps for Bass. Even without any tube inside. I
played with the guy i mentioned, and i knew exactly how he sounds. The
"BASSMAN 100" was shitty.

The bassmaster and the crunchmaster share a very similar topology and
sound very close.


this whole "discussion" is ridiculous and fruitless.

Jochen
Brian Running
2009-08-09 23:29:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by jh
this whole "discussion" is ridiculous and fruitless.
Well, there you go, Jochen. You and I agree in the end, anyway. :-)
Best wishes to you and everyone else over there in alt.guitar.amps.

Except Rich Leavitt.
RichL
2009-08-10 02:51:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Running
Post by jh
this whole "discussion" is ridiculous and fruitless.
Well, there you go, Jochen. You and I agree in the end, anyway. :-)
Best wishes to you and everyone else over there in alt.guitar.amps.
Except Rich Leavitt.
C'mon Brian -- give us a kiss ;-)
Les Cargill
2009-08-10 02:54:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Running
Post by jh
this whole "discussion" is ridiculous and fruitless.
Well, there you go, Jochen. You and I agree in the end, anyway. :-)
Best wishes to you and everyone else over there in alt.guitar.amps.
Except Rich Leavitt.
Leavitt alone, Brian.

--
Les Cargill
RichL
2009-08-10 03:08:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Les Cargill
Post by Brian Running
Post by jh
this whole "discussion" is ridiculous and fruitless.
Well, there you go, Jochen. You and I agree in the end, anyway. :-)
Best wishes to you and everyone else over there in alt.guitar.amps.
Except Rich Leavitt.
Leavitt alone, Brian.
Hey, everybody stop taking my name in vain!
(p.s....it's a short E sound. Like the guy on Barney Miller.)
Les Cargill
2009-08-10 03:15:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichL
Post by Les Cargill
Post by Brian Running
Post by jh
this whole "discussion" is ridiculous and fruitless.
Well, there you go, Jochen. You and I agree in the end, anyway. :-)
Best wishes to you and everyone else over there in alt.guitar.amps.
Except Rich Leavitt.
Leavitt alone, Brian.
Hey, everybody stop taking my name in vain!
(p.s....it's a short E sound. Like the guy on Barney Miller.)
But that just makes it a better pun, Rich. Didn't you get
the memo? I can't help you if you don't read the provided
materials.

I love puns.

--
Les Cargill
RichL
2009-08-10 03:18:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Les Cargill
Post by RichL
Post by Les Cargill
Post by Brian Running
Post by jh
this whole "discussion" is ridiculous and fruitless.
Well, there you go, Jochen. You and I agree in the end, anyway.
:-) Best wishes to you and everyone else over there in
alt.guitar.amps.
Except Rich Leavitt.
Leavitt alone, Brian.
Hey, everybody stop taking my name in vain!
(p.s....it's a short E sound. Like the guy on Barney Miller.)
But that just makes it a better pun, Rich. Didn't you get
the memo? I can't help you if you don't read the provided
materials.
I love puns.
Oh sure, I got the memo...about 55 years ago. That's a real old one.
By the way, my son Brian was called B-Leavitt (believe it) all through
high school ;-)
Derek Tearne
2009-08-10 00:00:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by jh
the HK was simply the living example that even a small tube amp can do
the job. OK?
Look, I know it's fun and all to prove that certain things can be
achieved - but this was a real world question about what a normal every
day person can achieve going into normal shops and buying normal stuff.

OK, so your HK may sound great with 5 watts but that still does not
negate my point that a commercial 20watt or less combo that sounds great
does not exist. Maybe it does, but no one, including yourself, has yet
demonstrated this.

What you have demonstrated is that it should be possible to make such a
thing - not that such a thing is commercially or readily available.
Post by jh
Your "Bassman 100" is just a new amp from a company the used to know how
to make amps in the past.
Look, you're the one that said 'Bassman 100' as though somehow that
would mean only one thing. I have no way of knowing which of the Fender
bass amps named bassman 100 you actually meant even after you included
'vintage'.
Post by jh
And after I have heard a real good bass guy play one of them, i
can't understand why *you* even bother about that POS.
I have never heard anyone play through the recent bassman. You're the
one who brought up the bassman 100 and I apologise for not somehow
deriving via clairvouyance which one of the dozens of possibilities you
meant. Personally I blame Fender for yet again causing brand confusion
by bringing out products which sound like they are the same thing but
aren't.
Post by jh
Don't get me wrong, although I'm a convinced tube fanatic, I know that
there are real good SS amps for Bass.
You know, I'm fairly sure I haven't expressed an opinion in this
discussion re the relative merits of tubes vs solid state. I've played
through and owned both good and bad examples of both.
Post by jh
this whole "discussion" is ridiculous and fruitless.
Well, yes, seeing as you seem to be discussing the relative merits of
valves vs solid state and I'm discussing the options available for
someone making a combo purcasing decision.

There really aren't that many low wattage tube bass combos available at
this time.

--- Derek
--
Derek Tearne - ***@url.co.nz
Vitamin S - improvisation from Aotearoa/New Zealand
http://www.vitamin-s.co.nz/
RichL
2009-08-06 22:52:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get very
good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too much for
a practice amp. His teacher seemed to think a 20W model would be ok
for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!).
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume. So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
Here's what I'd do, if he's really serious and if he has the maturity to
use the volume control as intended.

Look for a used Ampeg SVT-3 Pro (up to 450 W into 4 ohms) and a nice cab
to go with it (I've got an Ampeg SVT410HE cab that I use with mine.)
Advantages:

(1) It's got enough power and good enough sound to gig
(2) It sounds fairly decent at practice volume (if he wants a somewhat
overdriven sound, he can crank up the gain to overdrive the tube and
compensate by lowering the master volume)
(3) Most importantly, you'll be able to recover your full investment if
you re-sell it.

I use mine at home all the time.
Benj
2009-08-07 01:59:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichL
Here's what I'd do, if he's really serious and if he has the maturity to
use the volume control as intended.
Look for a used Ampeg SVT-3 Pro (up to 450 W into 4 ohms) and a nice cab
to go with it (I've got an Ampeg SVT410HE cab that I use with mine.)
(1)  It's got enough power and good enough sound to gig
(2)  It sounds fairly decent at practice volume (if he wants a somewhat
overdriven sound, he can crank up the gain to overdrive the tube and
compensate by lowering the master volume)
(3)  Most importantly, you'll be able to recover your full investment if
you re-sell it.
I use mine at home all the time.
Absolutely excellent advice! Cripes! A G&L tribute 5 with and Ampeg-
SVT-3 PRO, the kid is set for a VERY long time! In fact, as others
have said, used is an excellent way to go PROVIDED you can find
something in the right range that works. I'm sure price is a factor.
Note too that he'd need to hear/try an Ampeg first as they have a a
distinctive sound that some don't like (I don't).

So many amps, so little money!
WB
2009-08-08 23:58:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Benj
So many amps, so little money!
That is always the case !
Sir Lurksalot
2009-08-07 02:13:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get very
good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too much for
a practice amp. His teacher seemed to think a 20W model would be ok
for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!).
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume. So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
I think 100W is a good choice, because if he sticks with it, it won't be
long before he wants to do some jamming with other musicians, and the 100W
rig will be big enough for that. Something smaller probably won't be. As
others have mentioned, if you buy a used 100W or bigger rig, you can
probably sell it for pretty close to what you paid for it when he gets ready
for something bigger and better.
Mandrake's Rootwerx
2009-08-07 11:12:49 UTC
Permalink
Well, two things to consider:

1. You can bet that he can get loud enough to drive you crazy even
with a 20W amp,
2. Last I looked, 100W bass amps feature a volume control, and you're
going to be badgering him to use it regardless of the watage, so . .
.


Consider that, in bass, clean headroom is often the name of the game,
and with a 20W amp, he probably wan't have enough of it to keep up
with a drummer. There's no reason a 100W amp can't function at bedroom
volumes, but it's pretty unlikely that the 20-watter will even be
adequate for casual jams (which are the surest way of maintaining a
growing musician's interest), so you'll probably end up shelling out
for a bigger one sooner or later anyway.

Joe
http://www.rootwerx.com
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get very
good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too much for
a practice amp. His teacher seemed to think a 20W model would be ok
for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!).
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume. So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
Jess Band-ee-Coot
2009-08-07 13:52:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mandrake's Rootwerx
1. You can bet that he can get loud enough to drive you crazy even
with a 20W amp,
2. Last I looked, 100W bass amps feature a volume control, and you're
going to be badgering him to use it regardless of the watage, so . .
.
Consider that, in bass, clean headroom is often the name of the game,
and with a 20W amp, he probably wan't have enough of it to keep up
with a drummer. There's no reason a 100W amp can't function at bedroom
volumes, but it's pretty unlikely that the 20-watter will even be
adequate for casual jams (which are the surest way of maintaining a
growing musician's interest), so you'll probably end up shelling out
for a bigger one sooner or later anyway.
Joe
http://www.rootwerx.com
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get very
good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too much for
a practice amp. His teacher seemed to think a 20W model would be ok
for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!).
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume. So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
Do you think this topic's been covered in 150 posts
about whether to get a 100w amp or not?
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"The good thing about a bee (I'm not talking about a Bumble Bee)
is that it stings once and then it dies.
I wish I could say the same for Steve Curtis.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
jh
2009-08-07 14:05:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jess Band-ee-Coot
Post by Mandrake's Rootwerx
1. You can bet that he can get loud enough to drive you crazy even
with a 20W amp,
2. Last I looked, 100W bass amps feature a volume control, and you're
going to be badgering him to use it regardless of the watage, so . .
.
Consider that, in bass, clean headroom is often the name of the game,
and with a 20W amp, he probably wan't have enough of it to keep up
with a drummer. There's no reason a 100W amp can't function at bedroom
volumes, but it's pretty unlikely that the 20-watter will even be
adequate for casual jams (which are the surest way of maintaining a
growing musician's interest), so you'll probably end up shelling out
for a bigger one sooner or later anyway.
Joe
http://www.rootwerx.com
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he proved
to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better amp, but
concerned about over doing it.
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get very
good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too much for
a practice amp. His teacher seemed to think a 20W model would be ok
for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends will start a
band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near future though due to
logistics...and knowing his friends!).
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume. So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
Do you think this topic's been covered in 150 posts
about whether to get a 100w amp or not?
maybe on A.B., not on A.G.A

kindest regards

Jochen
Monkey Pi
2009-08-07 14:06:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jess Band-ee-Coot
Do you think this topic's been covered in 150 posts
about whether to get a 100w amp or not?
Almost
No-one's questioned anyone's redefining of terms, mentioned any of the
Bass Gods, or attacked the original poster yet.

There's still time.

Monkey Pi
--
_ _
|o| o , o_,' o_, |o|
|O| <%'. _`'_ === <\_ |O|
(0) / | (_)`-' | / | (0)
p-----MonkeyMonkeyMonkey-----q
RichL
2009-08-08 00:25:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jess Band-ee-Coot
Post by Mandrake's Rootwerx
1. You can bet that he can get loud enough to drive you crazy even
with a 20W amp,
2. Last I looked, 100W bass amps feature a volume control, and you're
going to be badgering him to use it regardless of the watage, so . .
.
Consider that, in bass, clean headroom is often the name of the game,
and with a 20W amp, he probably wan't have enough of it to keep up
with a drummer. There's no reason a 100W amp can't function at
bedroom volumes, but it's pretty unlikely that the 20-watter will
even be adequate for casual jams (which are the surest way of
maintaining a growing musician's interest), so you'll probably end
up shelling out for a bigger one sooner or later anyway.
Joe
http://www.rootwerx.com
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he
proved to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better
amp, but concerned about over doing it.
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get
very good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too
much for a practice amp. His teacher seemed to think a 20W model
would be ok for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends
will start a band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near
future though due to logistics...and knowing his friends!).
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a
100W lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume. So for a
bedroom practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
Do you think this topic's been covered in 150 posts
about whether to get a 100w amp or not?
No one's forcing you to read it, darlin'.
Jess Band-ee-Coot
2009-08-08 05:31:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichL
Post by Jess Band-ee-Coot
Post by Mandrake's Rootwerx
1. You can bet that he can get loud enough to drive you crazy even
with a 20W amp,
2. Last I looked, 100W bass amps feature a volume control, and you're
going to be badgering him to use it regardless of the watage, so . .
.
Consider that, in bass, clean headroom is often the name of the game,
and with a 20W amp, he probably wan't have enough of it to keep up
with a drummer. There's no reason a 100W amp can't function at
bedroom volumes, but it's pretty unlikely that the 20-watter will
even be adequate for casual jams (which are the surest way of
maintaining a growing musician's interest), so you'll probably end
up shelling out for a bigger one sooner or later anyway.
Joe
http://www.rootwerx.com
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he
proved to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better
amp, but concerned about over doing it.
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get
very good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too
much for a practice amp. His teacher seemed to think a 20W model
would be ok for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his friends
will start a band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the near
future though due to logistics...and knowing his friends!).
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a
100W lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume. So for a
bedroom practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
Do you think this topic's been covered in 150 posts
about whether to get a 100w amp or not?
No one's forcing you to read it, darlin'.
True, I'm just commenting on it's legs.
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"The good thing about a bee (I'm not talking about a Bumble Bee)
is that it stings once and then it dies.
I wish I could say the same for Steve Curtis.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
RichL
2009-08-08 13:49:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jess Band-ee-Coot
Post by RichL
Post by Jess Band-ee-Coot
Post by Mandrake's Rootwerx
1. You can bet that he can get loud enough to drive you crazy even
with a 20W amp,
2. Last I looked, 100W bass amps feature a volume control, and
you're going to be badgering him to use it regardless of the
watage, so . . .
Consider that, in bass, clean headroom is often the name of the
game, and with a 20W amp, he probably wan't have enough of it to
keep up with a drummer. There's no reason a 100W amp can't
function at bedroom volumes, but it's pretty unlikely that the
20-watter will even be adequate for casual jams (which are the
surest way of maintaining a growing musician's interest), so
you'll probably end up shelling out for a bigger one sooner or
later anyway.
Joe
http://www.rootwerx.com
On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:51:28 -0400, markd
Post by markd
I bought my 14-year old son a new/better bass guitar after he
proved to me he's serious about playing. Now he needs a better
amp, but concerned about over doing it.
We've both done some research and the Acoustic models seem to get
very good reviews, but I'm concerned the 100W model (B100) is too
much for a practice amp. His teacher seemed to think a 20W model
would be ok for a bedroom amp, but my son thinks he and his
friends will start a band someday (I doubt that'll happen in the
near future though due to logistics...and knowing his friends!).
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a
100W lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume. So for a
bedroom practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit
overkill?
Do you think this topic's been covered in 150 posts
about whether to get a 100w amp or not?
No one's forcing you to read it, darlin'.
True, I'm just commenting on it's legs.
To be serious for a moment, I think that's the case for a lot of
crossposted threads, since the people on the various groups don't know
each other well and often make unfounded assumptions about the
experience level (or lack thereof) of people to whom they're responding.
As a regular participant in both of these groups, I find it amusing and
at the same time disheartening to a degree. (I won't mention any
names...) Pissing contests invariably result, and threads are
artificially prolonged as a consequence. Like now ;-)
Mike Fleming
2009-08-10 00:23:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by markd
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume. So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
Given the other point that you mention of your son using a 5-string,
I'd say a 100W combo is more likely to be in an enclosure that will
have reasonable bass extension and it will have the potential for use
with others where a 20W amp is likely to struggle or be overwhelmed. I
found a Hartke HA1200 120W 12" Kickback combo had a reasonable range
for a 5-string, could be used at bedroom (well, lounge) volume, and
was also useable with my pop covers band at venues taking 200-300
people.
--
Mike Fleming
Morris Slutsky
2009-08-11 15:29:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Fleming
Post by markd
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume.  So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?  
Given the other point that you mention of your son using a 5-string,
I'd say a 100W combo is more likely to be in an enclosure that will
have reasonable bass extension and it will have the potential for use
with others where a 20W amp is likely to struggle or be overwhelmed. I
found a Hartke HA1200 120W 12" Kickback combo had a reasonable range
for a 5-string, could be used at bedroom (well, lounge) volume, and
was also useable with my pop covers band at venues taking 200-300
people.
--
Mike Fleming
The bassist in my band uses a little old Ampeg solid state 100W
combo. But we also put him through a channel strip, roll the highs
down a little, push up the lows a little, and magically he has an 800W
setup with dual 18" speakers! It's not like anything else is down
there except for the kick drum. The singer likes the big subs,
they're his, although I don't hear any of his vocal actually coming
out of there - so they get the bass. The 100W combo is adequate for
practice and as a stage monitor. If we didn't have a PA with subs, it
wouldn't do very well. But for what it does, it's alright.
Mike Fleming
2009-08-13 14:50:05 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by Morris Slutsky
Post by Mike Fleming
Post by markd
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume.  So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?  
Given the other point that you mention of your son using a 5-string,
I'd say a 100W combo is more likely to be in an enclosure that will
have reasonable bass extension and it will have the potential for use
with others where a 20W amp is likely to struggle or be overwhelmed. I
found a Hartke HA1200 120W 12" Kickback combo had a reasonable range
for a 5-string, could be used at bedroom (well, lounge) volume, and
was also useable with my pop covers band at venues taking 200-300
people.
The bassist in my band uses a little old Ampeg solid state 100W
combo. But we also put him through a channel strip, roll the highs
down a little, push up the lows a little, and magically he has an 800W
setup with dual 18" speakers!
That would probably be overkill for a bedroom practice amp, depending
on the size of bedroom, the proximity of neighbours, and the stage of
advancement of deafness.
--
Mike Fleming
Les Cargill
2009-08-13 19:41:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Fleming
In article
Post by Morris Slutsky
Post by Mike Fleming
Post by markd
My understanding is that a 100W bass amp is very different than a 100W
lead guitar amp when it comes to sheer volume. So for a bedroom
practice amp, is 100 watts for a bass still a bit overkill?
Given the other point that you mention of your son using a 5-string,
I'd say a 100W combo is more likely to be in an enclosure that will
have reasonable bass extension and it will have the potential for use
with others where a 20W amp is likely to struggle or be overwhelmed. I
found a Hartke HA1200 120W 12" Kickback combo had a reasonable range
for a 5-string, could be used at bedroom (well, lounge) volume, and
was also useable with my pop covers band at venues taking 200-300
people.
The bassist in my band uses a little old Ampeg solid state 100W
combo. But we also put him through a channel strip, roll the highs
down a little, push up the lows a little, and magically he has an 800W
setup with dual 18" speakers!
That would probably be overkill for a bedroom practice amp, depending
on the size of bedroom, the proximity of neighbours, and the stage of
advancement of deafness.
They have volume controls. These make big amps sound... smaller. But
if owning a set of bass amps of varying sizes, like socket wrenches is
a goal in life, don't let me stop ya.

--
Les Cargill
Benj
2009-08-14 21:17:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morris Slutsky
The bassist in my band uses a little old Ampeg solid state 100W
combo.  But we also put him through a channel strip, roll the highs
down a little, push up the lows a little, and magically he has an 800W
setup with dual 18" speakers!  It's not like anything else is down
there except for the kick drum.  The singer likes the big subs,
they're his, although I don't hear any of his vocal actually coming
out of there - so they get the bass.  The 100W combo is adequate for
practice and as a stage monitor.  If we didn't have a PA with subs, it
wouldn't do very well. But for what it does, it's alright.
Don't be too sure about how well it does without subs. I was playing
with these guys who just bought a new Mackie powered mixer for their
gigs. It was about 800 watts but had those plastic speakers on
stands...you know the arrangement. Anyway, I'm thinking well this is
certainly going to make my bass sound like crap! But while it wasn't
like dual 18" subs I was amazed at how well it worked. In this case
there wasn't even the kick drum down there. Just me. So yeah,
sometimes 100w is going to work even when you are sure it won't.
Les Cargill
2009-08-14 23:11:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Benj
Post by Morris Slutsky
The bassist in my band uses a little old Ampeg solid state 100W
combo. But we also put him through a channel strip, roll the highs
down a little, push up the lows a little, and magically he has an 800W
setup with dual 18" speakers! It's not like anything else is down
there except for the kick drum. The singer likes the big subs,
they're his, although I don't hear any of his vocal actually coming
out of there - so they get the bass. The 100W combo is adequate for
practice and as a stage monitor. If we didn't have a PA with subs, it
wouldn't do very well. But for what it does, it's alright.
Don't be too sure about how well it does without subs. I was playing
with these guys who just bought a new Mackie powered mixer for their
gigs. It was about 800 watts but had those plastic speakers on
stands...you know the arrangement. Anyway, I'm thinking well this is
certainly going to make my bass sound like crap! But while it wasn't
like dual 18" subs I was amazed at how well it worked. In this case
there wasn't even the kick drum down there. Just me. So yeah,
sometimes 100w is going to work even when you are sure it won't.
I really am surprised, but... I'm a bit biased. Showman/singer I
played with in 2006/2007 had a "1200 W" Mackie PA head and
the passive 12" SRM350, and they sounded like a tuned Dremel tool. This
guy, though thought he was s'posed to keep the clip lights on. Others
have raved about the SRM450.

Maybe the SRM450v2 are that much of a cut above. But I know we
set up my bass amp as "subs" for between-sets music outside,
and... there's just no comparison.

The little Ampeg 100W B115 thingies are good little amps,
if you can use a 100W amp. Good value, too. I love Ampeg's
limiter - it's good idiot proofing. One of those with a
power amp and a couple of high-power 15" was one possible
solution I once looked at. It'd be a good jazz band amp.

--
Les Cargill
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